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Rifqa Bary Part II: The fake apostate conspiracy

Tayee_Adrian.jpg

WND located this photo of Tayee Adrian,
Rifqa's liason with Xenos Cult.

Subhanallah!

There is no might or power on earth or in Heaven greater than God.

I'm way out on a limb here, but I think I figured it out! Tell me if this makes sense... if you're just tuning in go back and read Rifqa Part I: The Xenos Cult

It's 2:44 am, and I haven't slept, but the trial is today and I don't have time to polish this, so here's some real gonzo journalism. I do this all for you, my dear reader.

The Franklin County Children Services in Ohio conducted a nearly month long investigation and concluded that the allegations against Muhammad Bary were unsubstantiated and it was safe for Rifqa to return home. Although they recommended therapy for the girl, and Muhammad agreed the whole family could use counseling.

That's bad for the anti-Muslim narrative, so John Stemberger filed a memorendum basically saying, "No it's not the Dad... it's the whole community!" Basically the Noor Islamic center is connected to Dr. Saqr, who's connected to Salah Soltan, who's connected to Al-Qaradawi, who's connected to Al Qaeda and Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood and all the evil people in the world. He actually said this is the memorendum. "The Muslim Brotherhood... an international organization responsible for birthing virtually every Islamic terrorist organization in the world!"

Therefore Ohio is not safe. Carry out that arguement all 10,000 Muslims at the Noor Islamic Center Community are terrorists by association. Let's just take away all their kids and give them to good evangelical families? I'll tell you one thing reader... if she's not safe in Ohio, she's not safe in Florida. All it took was a little creative Googling and I was able to determine the likely address where she's staying*... But I digress.

Oh my dear reader! I can play the association game. Check this out...

My contacts in Ohio on the case say that Xenos materials and a Flash drive containing the diary of Pastor Brian Williams were found in her bedroom and were turned over to police. They also confirm that I was right about the man in the room in the video as I described in Part I. That he was bald, had a goatee. They tell me he was also at the hearing on the 21st and addressed Muhammad Bary is "Brother" like a Muslim. But this guy was not a Muslim. He was interviewed after the trial in Florida twice by CBN:

Florida Judge Protects Terrified Christian Convert
Rifqa Bary - Prisoner of Islam

This guy is Jamal Jivanjee. Jamal Jivanjee claims to be a Muslim apostate from Columbus. He befriended Rifqa in Columbus long before she fled to Florida. He was also at the court house Friday August 21st. Bald guy with a goatee.

Ok... check this out.

If he's the coach in the first video, that means he went with Rifqa from Ohio to Florida. And that means that this is probably the guy that Lorenz is protecting when he says he doens't want to reveal who bought her the ticket.

"The pastor won't say who bought Rifqa's ticket. He is trying to protect the person" ~ Orlando Sentinal

I'd even bet (if I were a betting man) that there is no ticket and Jamal drove her the whole way.

But it get's better...

Jamal Jivanjee is on the board of directors of "illuminate" and on his bio he says he's a graduate of Liberty University in Lynchburg, VA where he studied Pastoral ministryThe President of the Liberty Theological Seminary and Professor of Apologetics at Liberty University is Ergun Mehmet Caner. Ergun Caner was interviewed by the Florida Baptist Witness early in the Rifqa contraversy but he dropped out of the frey.

Ergun claims to be another Christian convert from Islam from Columbus Ohio, and claims that he lives his life with a fatwa against his life from that community, which makes him uniquely qualified to speak about this case. This man is a complete charlatan! He is a fraud! He is a liar! A dajjal! I strongly suggest you take a look at this video. It's the first in an eight part series.

Ergun Mehmet Caner is FAKE apostate. He and as his brothers are these Christians that go around claiming to be ex-Muslim preaching lies about how aweful being a Muslim is. If you didn't watch the series here's some highlights. He claims his father built that mosque, and that he was trained to be the muadhin, but he misprounounces it! In part 2 he says the Shahada is "bismillakh aman arakhim mukhamdu alham arakhman arakhim." In part 3 he says that Ramadan is 40 days, and he says, "Jesus strapped himself to a cross so I wouldn't have a stap a bomb to myself." And he's always careful to point out that apostates risked their culture, families and lives for Jesus by leaving Islam. Wallahi! This man was never a Muslim.

So we're dealing with liars. And what's worse, they train other fake apostates! This is the sourse. This is the propagandist. The brainwasher. Ergun trains anti-Muslim propagandists. Jamal is a student of Ergun. Rifqa is a "friend" of Jamal. These are the people who turned typical arguments between a completely westernized teenage cheerleader and her liberal parents into death threats and honor killing from Islamic jihadists in Rifqa's mind.

Alhamdullilah! That's all I have for now. It's not proof yet, but I think this raises some serious questions about how all these people are connected. It's still just a theory. But I think it's a stronger chain of reasoning than "They're all TERRORISTS!" Hopfully it comes full circle in the trial today.

More to come. Please subscribe.

May Allah guide the course of this trial into the light of Truth. May He expose the liars and debase them. Ya Allah! Be Just with them. May He forgive you and me for our inequities. Everything right and true is from Allah. Any mistake is from myself. Astaghfirullah, wa alhamdulillah, wa lahaula wala quwata illa billah.

* Clarifiaction Added 09/14/09 - Apparently this has really upset the Anti-Muslim Brain Trust who think that I am stalking Rifqa Bary. I've gotten a number of hateful and threatening messages about this thanks to an article about me by Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs. Frankly, I'm more consumed with the final 10 days of Ramadan, which is more important to me than engaging with Pamela, but I feel compelled to make some response.

To be clear I did not seek out this address. I will not share it, and I don't believe she is in any real danger. I discovered it accidentally during my normal investigative process. My point was to demonstrate that the debate over her safety in Ohio or Florida is a red herring. I personally feel the motivation in fighting to keep the case in Florida, and not Ohio where the alleged crime, all the witnesses, and all the evidence is, is because the child protection laws are more in their favor in Florida. If a person is genuinely concerned for Rifqa’s safety, as I am, her safety in Florida no different than her safety in Ohio.

Further, if Pamela truly believed that my statement was dangerous why would she post it? She took the quote from a small time writer with an average of 200-300 hits per article out in California, and posted it on her site, which gets thousands of hits, specifically from people following the case in Ohio and Florida. It makes no sense. What she has done is revealed herself and her priorities. Clearly she is more concerned with her narrative about Islam and Muslims than the Truth, or the actual safety of the girl.

It never occurred to me that the statement might be dangerous, and I honestly don't think it is. I was making a point about security theater. I have taken a stance against the punishment for apostasy, in favor of Rifqa’s emancipation, against collective guilt, and for presumed innocence for all parties. If Pamela had done any investigation she would have discovered this instantly.

Some have asked me to edit the article, but I will not. I'm sure Pamela has already taken a screen shot, and if I remove it now she will just publish the screen shot, putting more eyes on this statement she deems so dangerous. But for now, I'm not sweating it. I will continue to espouse what I believe to be True, though they dislike it. I will not be intimidated by her, or the threats of her cronies.

I have decided that the best course of action is to collected the contact information for the relevant authorities which Pamela advises her readers to report me to, and inform them how and where I came across this address so they can remove it if they feel it compromises her security in any way. I leave it in the capable hand of those security agencies.

I'm relatively certain that when the gag order comes off the police reports this will all blow over. And if it doesn't, I will certainly eat my words, and stand on which ever side protects the well being of the girl.

Related Articles:
For more info:
Rifqa's Testimony (05/2009)
Rifqa's YouTube debut (8/10/2009)
The FDLE Interview (8/24/2009)
Rifqa's Affidavit (8/30/2009)
The Lou Engle interview (9/24/2009)

Comments

  • Jim 5 years ago

    The author claims Ergun Caner is a liar--in part--because he mispronounces a word. By that logic, is the author a liar because he makes numerous spelling and grammatical errors in his story?

  • Faried 5 years ago

    It's not one word -- the whole phrase is wrong. And it's not something obscure, either -- it's the phrase Muslims say before doing just about anything -- reading verses from the Qur'an, eating, etc. A practicing Muslim says it dozens of times a day.

  • Faried 5 years ago

    Also, the shahada is a completely different phrase, and repeated by practicing Muslims after they wash up to pray.

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    Jim, he doesn't get one word wrong... he gets everything wrong. Horribly embarrassingly wrong. For Muslims it is instantly apparent that this guy is a fake. Without first had experience with Muslims it might be tricky. Clearly none of the dupes in the audience get it. I tried to convey my urgency in the beginning, If I've made mistakes please feel free to point them out and I will correct them in the morning. But for now it's time... finally... to rest.

  • Passerby 5 years ago

    Lighten up Jim; think about it, if somebody told you that they were a Christian who believed Jebooz Crinch died on the crust for them because they read it in the Holy Bubble, what would you think?

  • Jim 5 years ago

    Davi,

    Thanks for your reply. I have first hand experience with Muslims. Most are pretty dear people. The point was that a pastor who mispronounces words and misspeaks on some factual issues does not mean he is not a former Muslim any more than your misspellings,grammar mistakes, and convenient use of an unnamed source make you a liar.

  • Amen 5 years ago

    Masha'Allah, well i already told you it's straight from Hollywood show and i also said you got to be a Fool to believe in such a bias.
    I have to suggest this to all whom are afraid,scared, terrified, living a nightmare or whatsoever are going through because of either their hate or just a simply being ignorant about Islam, i will say why don't you take a challenge to study this crazy religion that supposedly kill and oppresses People, then you will see if you really take on a sincere study how it is going to make you wake up from your slumber.
    thanx Davi you deserve a cup of Cappuccino with some Honey on the top!.

  • Bob 5 years ago

    Good investigative work. It is very believable that some of these Christians are over zealous in their cause and have wrongly slandered this family. Religioun can give people tunnel vision thinking. If they think their cause is sacred then it is easy to justify such lowly actions for the "greater good".

    Having said that. If the girl wants to live apart from her parents then she should have that right.

  • Sam 5 years ago

    Wow Davi. You really did your homework on this one... and I'm sure onto something. More exposure is needed on these christian cults that slowly tear away at the fabric of our families and communities. I am sad that the American Islamic community has to be the media victim of all of this.

  • Drake 5 years ago

    Sorry Jim, but it's clear from the video that Ergun is lying. Not even a child would mispronounce such commonly occurring words so horribly. This self proclaimed ex-devout-muslim completely MANGLED practically every word that even non-practicing muslims would know! You can't just accidentally get some of those wrong.

    It's like saying:
    Hai I iz a einglsh expurt frum Harvard, da top younivercity in Amerikah.

    Sure you can pretend I 'accidentally misspelled some words' and argue that it doesn't disprove my credentials or my knowledge of English, but frankly, that would make you a gigantic idiot.

    ( I apologize for that last word, I don't intend to come off as harsh to you )

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    If you go through the series you'll see that Ergun Caner's story doesn't even make sense chronologically. Like he says he converted on college, but in 1982 he was 12 years old. He says his brother converted a year after him, but they both say they converted in November of 1982. He says he's from a Muslim majority country, then he says he's from Sweeden. Bollocks. Period.

  • Drake 5 years ago

    Sorry Jim, but it's clear from the video that Ergun is lying. Not even a child would mispronounce such commonly occurring words so horribly. This self proclaimed ex-devout-muslim completely MANGLED practically every word that even non-practicing muslims would know! You can't just accidentally get some of those wrong.

    It's like saying:
    Hai I iz a einglsh expurt frum Harvard, da top younivercity in Amerikah.

    Sure you can pretend I 'accidentally misspelled some words' and argue that it doesn't disprove my credentials or my knowledge of English, but frankly, that would make you a gigantic idiot.

    ( I apologize for that last word, I don't intend to come off as harsh to you )

  • Truthinword 5 years ago

    Please tell the truth when slandering Ergun Caner. He is the president of Liberty Theological Seminary. An accredited graduate school, not exactly illiterate, weird person as you would suggest. As you must know, there are many Muslims from many Arab and other countries who pronounce things differently according to their own dialects. And, of course, he has been in America for a long time. In trying to discredit his own experience, you discredit yourself. His experience has been written about and documented. His brother Emir is a college university president. They have authored many books. Theirs is a well-known story.

  • Drake 5 years ago

    Truthinword, It's not a matter of dialect, these words & phrases which he completely butchers can easily be pronounced perfectly by chinese muslims and african muslims alike. These words are so common that it's instantly recognizable when someone doesn't say them properly, regardless of dialect.

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    Truthinword - Please rebut reason and evidence with reason and evidence. He claims Turkish descent. My own Arabic Teacher was a Turkish teacher at Baghdad University before the invasion. And the other student, my best friend, is Turkish. I know how Turkish sounds. His pronunciation is not a Turkish dialect. Ignore his pronunciation and his knowledge of Islam is still lacking. Lent is 40 days, not Ramadan. All Muslims abstain from water when they fast, not merely the devout. He doesn’t just mispronounce the Shahada he gets it wrong. His story is not even chronologically consistent. So he’s either a liar or a fool. But he presents himself as an expert, and as you say he’s college educated, so if we rule out fool what do we have left?

    His experience has been written and documented BY HIM. Authoring many books is not evidence of anything. Lying more doesn't make your story true.

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    Truthinword – He doesn’t even get his mockery right! Devout Muslim men don’t wear silk or gold.

    As an aside, just a little piece of moral philosophy you can bring into future debates. When you say, "In trying to discredit his own experience, you discredit yourself." You must afford that same moral principle to me. Therefore, by you trying to discredit my experience you discredit yourself. And also, by Ergun trying to discredit Muslim's experience he also discredits himself. You can't have opposite moral rules for different people in a consistent moral philosophy. That principle is internally contradictory because it is itself an attempt to discredit, and therefore it discredits itself. So, that argument is self defeating. Food for thought.

  • mirele 5 years ago

    Ergun Caner is a liar and obfuscator on several matters. I've documented this thoroughly in several posts on my blog, mmmirele dot blogspot dot com. Scroll down to the right, select Ergun Caner, start reading. Basically, Ergun's been busted on his degrees (why he would claim a Ph.D when he has a perfectly good Th.D is beyond me, to say nothing of the D.Min from the place I am NOT calling a diploma mill) and his claim that his dad built the Islamic Center in Columbus (hello, per the county, it's an old mansion, built in 1903!) as well has Ergun's ability to start rattling off Al-Fatihah when he's asked about the Shahadah (and I showed how, if Ergun was as devout as he claimed, he should have those down and not mix them up).

    Ergun's been eating out (and more) on his former Muslimness for twenty years and more. He is not a disinterested observer, his goal is to make Christians scared of the Islamic boogeyman as well as catch Muslims within his web.

  • Amen 5 years ago

    Masha'Allah, well i already told you it's straight from Hollywood show and i also said you got to be a Fool to believe in such a bias.
    I have to suggest this to all whom are afraid,scared, terrified, living a nightmare or whatsoever are going through because of either their hate or just a simply being ignorant about Islam, i will say why don't you take a challenge to study this crazy religion that supposedly kill and oppresses People, then you will see if you really take on a sincere study how it is going to make you wake up from your slumber.
    thanx Davi you deserve a cup of Cappuccino with some Honey on the top!.

  • passerby 5 years ago

    If Caner is Muslim, then Jeebooz died on the crust for Christians.

  • Journalist 5 years ago

    The fact that Rifqa Bary, Jamal Jivanjee, and Ergun Caner are all tied together raises an interesting web of questions, especially in regards to their integrity. Initially, I was impartial to this debacle, however, after seeing Rifqa assert verifiably false claims, then seeing her lawyer Robert Spencer -a known right-wing nutter- magnificently exposed by two very prestigious academics (professors Cherif Bassiouni & Gwendolyn Zoharah Simmons PhD), then seeing Sgt. Jerry Cupp (head of Columbus police Missing-Persons Unit & Special-Victims Bureau) officially release a public statement expressing doubts about Rifqa Barys story, and finally seeing this 8 part series which clearly exposes Ergun Canar as a fraud, has finally caused me to to really doubt the integrity of this group of Christians. I've never seen such deceit so prominently displayed as I have from these so called Christians. They certainly have lost my respect.
    I congratulate everyone who has worked hard to expose these frauds

  • Janice 5 years ago

    Illuminate is based at The Ohio State University, where Xenos Christian Fellowship also has a huge presence. You can bet they crossed paths.

  • Janice 5 years ago

    Could these men be part of a Xenos outreach into the large Muslim community in Columbus, Ohio?

  • Cat 5 years ago

    It appears the outcome of the hearing today did not depend on who says the shahada correctly, or who flatly denies the existence of the Bukhari hadith on apostasy on camera, or Rifqa's alleged involvement with creepy Christian cult types, or the Noor mosque's alleged fawning hospitality to Quradawi pure-Islam disciples, or anything else of the sort.

    The judge seemed primarily concerned with Rifqa's safety and well being, and continued to urge mediation and counseling. A new jurisdictional issue has arisen, because the Bary family is apparently (there is no settled proof yet) in the United States illegally.

    The most interesting point in Mr. Barker's post is this, though: "a little creative Googling and I was able to determine the likely address where she was staying." Why would anyone broadly advertise such a search and the supposedly successful result for a young woman who believes, and whose belief a court is investigating, might be in actual danger of honor-murder?

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    Cat - I'm glad you asked that question. The clarify, it's simply my investigative process. I look into every name, and every organization connected with the subject, especially sources which are not connected to the story. I was not actively searching this address, and I certainly would never publish it, or give it to anyone. I was hoping to make a point about the difference between security and security theater.

    In hind sight they probably have some kind of security detail, and will until the case is resolved and she changes residence again.

    The idea of this becoming an immigration battle is really interesting, because than it becomes an issue of sanctuary. We'll see I guess.

    As always, my recommendation in this case is emancipation. Let the girl live where she wills. If she wants to go into hiding, change her name etc, that would indicate some sincerity on her part. If she decides she loves the spot light and wants to make her into a public figure, I will continue to analy

  • Kamala 5 years ago

    Davi, your posts are quite fascinating.

    You're absolutely correct about guilt by association being dangerous. But there is no doubt that at one time Sultan was held in high esteem by the Noor center: he's the only one listed in their "Who's Who" list of the Columbus Muslim community as of 2005. See http: //web.archive.org/web/20061113092839/www.noorusa.com/content/category/12/52/74/

    So the obvious thing to do for all people defending the Noor community is to simply condemn Dr. Sultan, his antisemitic screeds, and his support for the Jew-hating, pro-Hamas-suicide-bombing, pro-gay-stoning, pro-female-circumcising, Muslim Brotherhood spiritual leader Qaradawi.

    Say something like "We reject the message and hatred of Dr. Sultan; he is no longer welcome at our Islamic center, nor is his message." That would go much further than just saying that the report on the Noor center is "all lies."

  • Cat 5 years ago

    A journalist -- a writer by trade -- shouldn't have to be reminded that "But I digress" means "What I just said is completely irrelevant to this discussion." There was absolutely no valid reason to include that taunting, threatening little bombshell about your knowledge of the residence of a young woman who claims to be in fear of Sharia-murder for her apostasy and/or honor-murder for her disobedience.

    Further, your statement that she should "go into hiding, change her name" to indicate her "sincerity" is equally disturbing. You mean, go into hiding and live as a hunted animal, like apostates in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan, and even the United Kingdom must do? You can't possibly mean such a thing about a teenage girl in the United States, can you?

  • Cat 5 years ago

    A journalist -- a writer by trade -- shouldn't have to be reminded that "But I digress" means "What I just said is completely irrelevant to this discussion." There was absolutely no valid reason to include that taunting, threatening little bombshell about your knowledge of the residence of a young woman who claims to be in fear of Sharia-murder for her apostasy and/or honor-murder for her disobedience.

    Further, your statement that she should "go into hiding, change her name" to indicate her "sincerity" is equally disturbing. You mean, go into hiding and live as a hunted animal, like apostates in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan, and even the United Kingdom must do? You can't possibly mean such a thing about a teenage girl in the United States, can you?

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    Kamala – I cringe at collectivism so I want to be sure I understand what you’re asking. In order to defend a community I should condemn an individual, because the group is responsible for the opinions of the one? I’m not sure I agree. I don’t feel in any way accountable for the opinions of the leaders at the mosques I pray at. I hardly even know what they are, and I’m pretty active in multiple mosques. Noor is 10,000 people. I’m not willing to speak about the whole group, either in defense or accusation. But I’m not unwilling to condemn Sultan. All I’ve seen from him is a handful of videos where he’s talking about “9/11 Truth” (not my cup of tea, but not that unusual) and then some “Death to America Kill the Jews” kind of stuff. I haven’t heard any of the gay stoning female circumcising stuff, but in general my opinion is like this… initiating the use or threatening the use of violence against civilians is always evil. To the extent that Sultan, or anyone, does this I condemn.

  • Cat 5 years ago

    A journalist -- a writer by trade -- shouldn't have to be reminded that "But I digress" means "What I just said is completely irrelevant to this discussion." There was absolutely no valid reason to include that taunting, threatening little bombshell about your knowledge of the residence of a young woman who claims to be in fear of Sharia-murder for her apostasy and/or honor-murder for her disobedience.

    Further, your statement that she should "go into hiding, change her name" to indicate her "sincerity" is equally disturbing. You mean, go into hiding and live as a hunted animal, like apostates in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Jordan, Afghanistan, and even the United Kingdom must do? You can't possibly mean such a thing about a teenage girl in the United States, can you?

  • Davi - SF Muslim Examiner 5 years ago

    Cat – A writer – an artist by trade – understands that literary conventions are meant to be broken. You know… I read it again, and I don’t see a taunt, or a threat… but I think of it like this. If I told you the TSA misses 50% of the guns and bombs that they use to test their own efficiency (which is true) do you see that as me personally threatening you? I see it as pulling the curtain off the security theater. But I’m happy to consider your argument, and possibly remove it.

    On the second point, there’s no “aught” in “is.” I’m not saying she “should” go into hiding. I’m saying if she sincerely lives in fear the witness protection program makes the most sense. In fact Pamela Geller has criticized her attorneys for not seeking this. If on the other hand she chooses a public life, stays in the spot light saying inflammatory things about Muslims with no real consideration for security, I am going to doubt her sincerity about living in fear. But that’s an “is” not an “aught.” It’s just

  • Cat 5 years ago

    Mr. Barker, I appreciate your responses to my concerns. But I don't think you realize what you've said here.

    "If on the other hand she chooses a public life, stays in the spot light saying inflammatory things about Muslims with no real consideration for security, I am going to doubt her sincerity about living in fear."

    Mr. Barker, Rifqa herself has not said "inflammatory things about Muslims", although other people might have. She has spoken only of her own situation. But think through what you just said -- which is that anyone who says anything critical about Islam in public should have a "real consideration for security" and live in fear. Why is that, Mr. Barker?

  • ad67 5 years ago

    islam is the worst religion they issue a fatwa on u if u leave - islam sucks and so do muslims!

  • Nadja 5 years ago

    The hadith are a trap for the unwary. Traditional Islamic practice is that one studied for years before being allowed to use the hadith to make legal decisions; today we have instant scholars who wander around hurling hadith and demanding "daleel" from those who follow different opinions. A hadith in Bukhari does no constitute Sharia.

    As an aside, in the Maliki school the basis was the actual behavior of the first generations in Medina and hadith were considered less important than the actual practices.

  • Cat 5 years ago

    Nadja: I wish everyone was as thoughtful and intelligent and wise as you. But there are 1400 years of Islamic jurisprudence agreeing that apostates must be killed. The details lay only in the method. The proof is in the murders and death threats that continue to occur even today. These folks might be wrong (like a bunch of Christians are wrong on what their Gospels say -- there are a sad number of dead nurses and doctors that prove this) -- but they're killing people and SOME imams are urging them on.

    Mr. Barker: Real life, Rifqa's life, does not involve "literary conventions." She might be exaggerating. But there are literally dozens of Muslim women who were killed who weren't exaggerating their fear. We're all impressed with your Google skills. Please don't taunt others who aren't as kind as you to try to reproduce your results.

  • M Khan 5 years ago

    your article is very good. it's also nice to see that my videos are appearing everywhere. pretty soon, whenever the name ergun caner is mentioned, the first thing that will come to a person mind is "the liar" - "the fraud"

  • Davi 5 years ago

    Cat - with all respect you are incorrect. It has not been 1400 years of consistent opinion that the punishment for apostasy is death. There has always been a divergent opinion, and the dominant opinion, at least in practice historically, has been that the punishment is intended for apostates who commit treason or espionage. Even Ibn Taymiyya, who something of the intellectual forefather of alot of the Salafi/Wahabi ideas in modern day Islam was firmly against any punishment for apostasy. It's too much to explain here, but an article is forthcoming.

    The only :literary convention" I'm talking about "but I digress" which is a phrase I enjoy, even if it's considered bad form.

    It sounds like you in fact would consider my telling you the TSA fails it's own tests 50% of the time as a taunt or a personal threat. After all others not as kind as me might try to exploit that knowledge. Being aware of the holes in your security is the best way to close those holes.

  • Davi 5 years ago

    Cat - If Child Protective Services, or Florida Law Enforcement, or the lawyers, or you or me are genuinely concerned for her safety, and that is the sincere motivation for keeping her in a foster care home in Florida, instead of a foster care home in Ohio than examining whether or not that genuinely increases her safety and security is absolutely relevant. If however, keeping her in Florida is merely intended as a hurdle to family counseling and to hinder genuine reconciliation, than your reaction is logical, and my point is irrelevant. By construing my point as a threat, you concede my point, that she is no more safe in Florida than in Ohio. As always, I advocate emancipation. Let her live in Alaska is she likes.

  • David 5 years ago

    I used to attend Xenos Christian back in 2002-2003 until God called me out. He didnt call me out because of anything the church was doing, but because it was time to move on to another chapter in my life in order that I may grow in Christ. Xenos is far from a cult. They focus on small groups not to separate you from family but because real Christian Maturity happens in small groups. Jesus only had 12 disciples, not 100 or 2000. That is the basis for the small group movement. Sat, and Sun teachings were the icing on the cake. For example, look at your own life....how many of your "friends" do you really know? I mean intimately (there worries, sorrows, joys, their favorite things to do, etc) At the most for me, I could only have 3 or 4 because having true relationship with people takes a lot of time. This is the reason why small groups or cell groups exist. DO NOT think small groups are separate from the Main body but they coexist in harmony.

  • Saracen 5 years ago

    Peace be unto you,

    There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam. I know, because I was an apostate at one time. The community welcomed me back years later in my college years. Even the strict interpreters of Islam knew me and did not hurt me in any way. Islam is the best religion...it is a practical and attainable religion of THE ONE GOD. Also, you can NEVER BE EXCOMMUNICATIED IN ISLAM. Unlike other religions, nobody can kick you out of the faith. You can be a Muslim no matter what anybody else says. Sometimes you may be called an apostate for your different interpretation of Islam, but they still can't kick you out of Islam. If you do evil and you are a Muslim you are called a Munafiq (Hypocrite), but they still can't kick you out of the faith. Islam is about your personal relationship with God with no intercessors. I love God and I am happy he sent the Prophet Muhammad to give us the Final Testament (The Holy Qur'an).

  • STEVO the DESTROYER 5 years ago

    Moslems are in a death cult. I would pity them if I did not HATE their death cult so much.

  • The genocidal pedophile Muhammad 5 years ago

    You lying, terrorist-sympathizing, murderous co-conspirator. Stop obfuscating for Islamic butchery:

    "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57).

    "They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them" (Qur'an 4:89).

    You are an enemy of Liberty.

  • Nadja is a liar, too 5 years ago

    You don't need to train for years to read the plain words of Muhammad, liar.

  • Saracen got lucky, if he's telling the truth 5 years ago

    So, what about a genocidal, enslaving, mutilating, rapist, camel-urine-drinking pedophile screams out "prophet of god" to you?

  • The donkey Muhammad, in his own words 5 years ago

    "the Messenger of Allah . . . would say: 'Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war. . . . When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. . . . Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them . . .'" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4294).

    "fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) . . . " (Qur’an 9:5).

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, unti

  • The donkey Muhammad, in his own words 5 years ago

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29).

    "Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle . . . '" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).

    "It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise" (Qur'an 8:67).

    "Allah’s Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror'" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220).

  • The vicious pedophile Muhammad 5 years ago

    "Allah's Apostle was asked, 'What is the best deed?' He replied, 'To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad).' The questioner then asked, 'What is the next (in goodness)?' He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause.' The questioner again asked, 'What is the next (in goodness)?' He replied, 'To perform Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). . .'" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25).

    "Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone (in the whole of the world). But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do" (Qur'an 8:38; ayah 39 from Noble Qur'an).

  • Mo trouble 5 years ago

    Davi Barker is just like his father, the devil.

    First Mr. Barker
    " it ...[is] safe for Rifqa to return home"

    and

    "if she's not safe in Ohio, she's not safe in Florida. All it took was a little creative Googling and I was able to determine the likely address where she's staying... But I digress"

    Doesn't the intimate of address location contradict the spirit of the early quote?

    Now Mr. Barker's father:

    Allah is the Greatest Deceiver of all (S. 3:54)

    Then are they sent back to Allah, their Master, the True one... (S 6:62)

    Islam is dualistic. See politicalislamDOTcom

  • Mo trouble 5 years ago

    SHOULD HAVE SAID

    doesn't the INTIMATION of address IDENTIFICATION...

  • Mo trouble 5 years ago

    DAVI- when you refer to others "not as kind as you" you betray taqiyya.

    Such individuals exploiting TSA mistakes to obey Allah's terror commands are evil. It is not that they are suffering from a deficiency in kindness. Their act is not morally neutral.

    Until you call them "evil," you are part of the problem.

  • James.Smithman 5 years ago

    I used to smoke pot long ago. I’ve been free from this now for 15 years by God’s grace.

    While smoking pot, I’d come up with the most outlandish, off-the-wall, hysterically insane, assumptions of how certain events related to each other.

    Fortunately, while I was walking thru this psychotic season of my life, the internet was not readily yet. Otherwise, I probably would have published many a wild and outlandish tale on a blog, all at the cost of those involved in my creative brainstorms.

    Instead, I wrote my silly stories on my PC. How grandiose and amazing they seemed while stoned! The next day when I sobered up, I would read my tales and realize how messed up pot made my ability to reason.

    Eventually Christ turned this all around for me. Today I can say there is a way to freedom from the clutches of drugs. For anyone reading this who needs help: know there is a way out!

    If you seek help, with God, you will find the help you need.

    Thanks for letting me share.

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