When War of Angels debuted as the top-selling hard rock album last month, and held that position for a week, it was a bittersweet victory for Pop Evil. The band members — vocalist Leigh Kakaty, guitarists Tony Greve and Davey Grahs, drummer Dylan Allison and bassist Matt DiRito — waited patiently to deliver an album held in limbo while the band severed ties with their record company.
Immediately following the CD's release on their new label, eOne Entertainment, Leigh Kakaty — frontman, songwriter and proud mama’s boy — discussed Pop Evil’s steady climb and a decade of making music.
War of Angels is finally out. What a relief this must be.
It’s like mixed emotions. We’re shocked that it’s actually out, and then having it do so well — it’s been an emotional week for the band members.
When you have delays, and fans think an album is coming out, how do you keep spirits up?
We gave away free songs on Facebook and let them know that “Hey, we’re here struggling with you and we’re disappointed.” When we played live, we let them know our frustration. Obviously, the big statement that we made as a band was when I ripped up the contract at Rock On The Range. It was a “turn the leaf” moment for the fans to let them know that “This is serious, this isn’t just a delay a delay a delay, this is messing with people’s lives.” I think once the fans understood that and got behind it, it led to the momentum of the release. It was kind of spur of the moment, but it was — back to the original question — thinking about the fans and what would be an effective way to let them know our frustration and how we felt. The cool thing with Pop Evil, and what rock and roll means to us, is just being real. I know you hear that term all the time, but it’s not about putting a bunch of fancy clothes on and letting your hair down and being crazy for nothing. You’ve got to really love it, because that’s what people admire when they listen to rock and roll music. It gives them a chance to get away from all the trials and tribulations of everyday life. When people come to our shows, they see that raw friction that has always been rock and roll. Dealing with the industry, it seems like a breed that’s becoming more and more extinct because the majors don’t really care.
You’ve come a long way as an independent band. What enabled you to get to this level?
I think just our work ethic. We would play covers so we could make money and pay for our own albums. The success of Lipstick on the Mirror, our first record — we funded that all on our own, and we got bigger and bigger and snowballed into this thing that was the Universal Records deal. Still, they were demos that we paid for on our own. This album was our first chance to work with an A-list producer [Johnny K], and sonically there’s a massive difference on this record. I think that work ethic … we set our goals — “This is what Pop Evil wants to achieve this year” — and we’d go for those goals. They were realistic goals: “We want to put out a record that we’re really proud of,” “We want to put together a music video that we’re proud of.” Not “Let’s try to get this much money from the label so we can put this out and do this.” We set realistic goals and we try to grow with every year that goes by.
How has the sound changed since Ready or Not and Lipstick on the Mirror?
It wasn’t as heavy metal. Whatever Pop Evil is on a heavy metal aspect has been because of Matt and Tony. We brought them in because they were writing and playing stuff that Davey and I weren’t playing. We grew up on the Black Crowes and Stone Temple Pilots, so a lot of those influences were in our writing. I grew up on acoustic guitar, so the ballads were always me because that’s what I was writing. We’ve learned to write with each other and use everyone’s strengths and that’s why we’re so proud of this record. Everyone contributed in their own way, which in our opinion is what being in a band is about. Being a frontman is not just about singing and writing. I want to grow with the guys. I can write by myself until the cows come home, but when I write with them it’s very special. You constantly learn from each other. I’m writing heavier stuff and they’re writing more ballad stuff. You take what you learn from your brothers and you add that to what you were already doing. For most musicians, I think you become kind of complacent where you are and with the songs you’re writing, the chords you’re playing, and sometimes it takes your brothers to make you grow. You pick up different things from your comrades that you didn’t think about, and you use techniques of theirs when you’re writing songs that you would never have written otherwise. That’s been exciting for us as a band, especially writing this new record.
When did you begin learning to write with each other?
During the year and a half or two years we were touring Lipstick on the Mirror, we’d bring ideas to the back of the bus and demo them. It was kind of like writing a paper. Once you get the first draft you know what’s not good enough. It turns into a second or third or fourth. So it was kind of an evolution, learning to write, and every song is different. It depends on the song. Take “Last Man Standing,” since that’s the single and it’s what people know. That was an evolution, a collaboration. We were at a place where we wanted the opportunity to record the heavier aspects, or the Evil, you’d say, of the Pop. We were a little bigger name; we didn’t want to write an album that sounded the same as the one before. We wanted an album that half was pop in its own way, midtempo and ballads, and half was screaming and in your face. We believe in a record that you can pop in from 1 to 10, listen to the whole thing and really get moved by it, and by the time you’re on the fourth song, it’s not, “Oh man, that sounds like the first three.” It led to more opportunities for us to bring more songs. At the end of the day, we write hooks, catchy songs, choruses, and that’s always been our thing: something you can sing along with, even when it’s your own song. That’s always been our philosophy, because once the songs are out on CD, we’ve heard them a million times, so the last thing we’re going to do is sing them. When you hear the songs again on your own, are you still singing them? That’s when you know. If they’re catchy or you’re humming them in the background, that’s a good sign.
What made these musicians the right ones for you?
We came from different backgrounds, so it felt like the great melting pot. We grew up together, so it’s like a brotherhood, kind of like a fraternity or sporting team in its own right. It just felt right. When we were onstage, there was always something special there. It’s something you can’t explain. You’ve just got to trust your instincts and go with it.
What led you to music?
We grew up near the Great Lakes. We would go down by the beach and people would have acoustic guitars. Like any young kids, you want attention, to find your place. The guys are all singing and the girls don’t care. They like the Top 40, not Led Zeppelin. They never heard of that; it’s not on the Barbie list of things to do for girls growing up.
Excuse me?
There are certainly plenty of exceptions, of course, but growing up in my neck of the woods, that’s how it was. Once you start playing a six-string, you’re compelled and realize how good some of these people are. I was 16 when I started to play. I played a lot of instruments. I wanted to sing and be a frontman and be onstage. I wanted the attention and to captivate an audience. Some people are born with that. The instruments that God blessed me with were kind of a stepping stone to get me to where my true talent was, and that’s reaching people and having a connection with people. That’s a gift. Without getting biblical or into a religious conversation with you, people who are chosen to spread a message, and a positive one at that, have this special thing and special ability to connect with people, and I feel that as a musician, as a frontman, you’re chosen to do that and you have to accept the responsibility that comes with that as well. That’s what I’m still learning — responsibility — and hopefully I’ll continue doing that (a) with the music and (b) with the live shows that connect and have an impact with people and hopefully help them in a positive way.
How far does that responsibility extend?
I think it’s the whole package, and that’s something you quickly understand. You want the fame and radio play and success, and you have those thoughts as a kid, only the good things. You don’t think about the family you’ll leave behind for nine weeks at a time or six months at a time. There’s no off time. It’s amazing how many people are listening and know the band, and you have to make sure you understand what you need to give back, whether it’s taking a picture at Olive Garden or signing an autograph at the mall. It’s all a part of that learning curve for a new band on the rise. There’s no Cliff’s Notes about getting from Point A to Point Z. You’ve got to feel it out. If you’re having a bad day and not in the mood, but you see someone whose favorite song is one of yours, you’ve got to remember that’s who you’re doing it for. The majority of people aren’t listening to rock like they once were, so I think the fans are so much more appreciated by new bands. So being a little bit more supportive and a little bit more compassionate, even when you're not in the mood, is part of that responsibility factor that you have to put into perspective.
How many instruments do you play?
I play the guitar, drums, bass, keyboards, harmonica and violin. I’m sure there’s more. I know enough to where I can write music on them. I don’t know if I’d get onstage and play piano, because it wouldn’t be pretty, but I can write and sing over it and kick the idea over to a real keyboardist. You’ve got to be able to play if you’re going to write, because you hear different melodies. I grew up playing the violin for 13 years. I can definitely play violin. It was my first instrument through school. My mom had such a passion for it and she wanted me to play, and of course being a mama’s boy and loving my mom, I’d do anything for her. So I played the violin, hated it, then I started playing sports and had to drop that off at the front door. So I stopped with the orchestra thing and I joined choir. I did my solos, “Goodnight Sweetheart,” “In the Still of the Night,” all that good stuff.
Do you still play the violin?
I don’t. I think the violin led me to the guitar, and my mom is cool with that. She’s like, ‘Well, at least you played the violin for me for 13 years.” “Mom, I’m in a rock band now. It’s all cool now. It was worth it, right?” “Well, I liked you playing the violin.” I’m like, “You’re never happy!”
You really are a mama’s boy.
I’m a mama’s boy for sure and I’m proud of it! I’ll say it onstage! Proud of it, proud of it! I wish she’d still cook for me and do my laundry, but those days are long over. But I’m still a mama’s boy. She still tells me what to do; she tries, anyway. She’s not as successful at it as she used to be!
What has changed for Pop Evil over ten years and what has stayed the same?
The work ethic is a little more focused. We know where we we’re going, where we want to be, and what our strengths are personally and as a band. As a frontman, my main goal is success of the band. What’s stayed the same is the passion. I’m impressed with us not getting upset or depressed with all the stuff that happened with us and with the label. That really could have ruined a lot of bands. If anything, it seems it reignited us to do this whether we have a label or not, because the fans make it worth our while. Seeing them react to the music is pretty incredible.
How did working with Johnny K make you a better vocalist?
He did a bunch for us with making sure that we graduated to the next level. He taught us about writing more efficiently. He taught us to understand and learn about radio hits. It sounds obvious, but there’s a true method to the madness. To see the work ethic and what he’s done was just beyond words. We were really excited about working with him. He gave us something that we’re really proud of. He pushed me to make sure every vocal made sense. I was doing that, but I wanted to make sure he was with me at all times, doing vocals or just for motivation. It’s nice having someone who is excited about the songs. He was that support, someone who really cared. He’s not just getting your money and bringing you in there. It was exciting to have someone you knew had been around some amazing songs, and was the reason for a lot of those songs’ success, being there and giving you his time. It was like playing the Super Bowl with all the fans giving you that adrenalin — he was like 300,000 fans in one person. He gives you confidence. You know that you’re being taken care of, and if you aren’t doing it right, he lets you know. Part of being a live performer is being confident and knowing who you are as a person, and having great songs and a great album is part of that, so I definitely think his passion for that was unparalleled in bringing more confidence to the live show.
After all of this, and given what the band has achieved independently, what made you decide to sign with eOne?
eOne Records is great. They’re a big independent and they’re a major label to me. They believe in the band and do what they can to promote us, so I’m content with that. I worry about writing songs that connect with people; that’s my job. I’m so excited to have this record out and enjoy the hard work that took a year and a half to get here. In six months, I’ll get back into writing. Right now I’m excited to let fans learn this record and come out and see us live.
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