With the single “Last Man Standing” now Top 5 on Active Rock radio, and an album, War of Angels, to be released, Pop Evil are back on the bus and on the road — a lifestyle they’re long accustomed to. Vocalist Leigh Kakaty, guitarists Tony Greve and Davey Grahs, drummer Dylan Allison and bassist Matt DiRito are no strangers to taking control of their career: Pop Evil built their following through years of hard work and the efforts have paid off remarkably. They quickly garnered a loyal and growing fan base, guest slots on major tours, and support from radio for their independently released EP, Ready or Not, and CD, Lipstick on the Mirror.
Only days out of their recording contract, Matt DiRito explained the circumstances surrounding War of Angels, the steady climb of Pop Evil, taking care of fans and the importance of giving back.
There have been some delays with your album release. Are there any updates you can give the fans?
Basically [the label] would say one thing and do another, time after time after time. Finally, when it came time to release this new album, they went about it the wrong way and it came down to where we were like, “Do we really still want to be with this label? Do we want to go back to being independent?” The success of the last album was based on us being independent and where we’d gotten ourselves before we were signed, so we talked amongst ourselves and said, “Let’s see if we can get out of this deal.”
When you have delays, and fans think an album is coming out, how do you keep spirits up?
It’s hard. It’s the worst, to be really honest with you, because you hate to say one thing and do another. We want to treat our fans the best because they’re the reason we do what we do, so to keep us up and keep them up, we’ve done a few things on the Internet. We took a couple of songs and released them for free, we took a track that we recorded for the album but weren’t going to use and put that up there, we took an acoustic recording of “Monster You Made” and put that on iTunes for free, and if you’re friends with us on Facebook you can get it for free, things like that. We also made a video of us playing songs off the album across the country. We took a 30-second clip of the actual recording off the album and we incorporated that into the video so that our fans could get online and listen to snippets of all our songs. It’s a little something for them to have while they’re being patient.
You’ve come a long way as an independent band. What enabled you to get to this level?
We pride ourselves on the live show, our delivery, performance and the message behind the music. We try to go for the “wow” factor every time. Word-of-mouth is key, and it’s not so much what we have to say but what other people say about us. You’re going to take your friend’s word over our word any day of the week. Growing up in Michigan, a lot of us played in cover bands and there was not a lot going on, so when you do something, you jump into it with both feet. We played shows all over the place and tried to think of new and fun ways to incorporate the audience and make our live show something to remember. That really helped us stand out in the beginning. We were lucky to catch the attention of good management who helped us at radio and did a few things that at the time no other bands were doing. We shot our own music video without help from anyone and used different things like that as marketing tools. We put ourselves out there, did little tours with people and established ourselves in different markets. It’s just a lot of hard work and a lot of time and what might be key is the time we put into it. We stayed together with the same guys and dealt with problems instead of having members break off. One of our strong points is that we’re the same core group of people that have been working together the whole time and are still pushing and working at it really hard.
It’s been ten years for Pop Evil and four for you. How did you find each other?
It wasn’t too hard to find each other, with all of us being from west Michigan. It’s one of those places where everyone knows everyone, especially on the music scene. We were all in separate bands, and Tony and I, who both came in four years ago, had played together for quite a while. He branched off to become an additional guitarist for Pop Evil, a fifth member, and two months after that their bass player left and I was the first person he called. A couple of other guys auditioned, but ultimately I got the spot.
Has the sound changed since then?
Oh, absolutely. The sound at the time was a little lighter and more pop rock, if you will. Tony and I brought more of an edge to it. We’re both into old-school rock and roll and metal, like Pantera, Motley Crue and Guns N’ Roses, so we brought more of that vibe to the band and more of an uplift to the sound. Before, it was a lot more like ballads and stuff — not that that’s a bad thing at all, it’s just a little different. For example, “100 In A 55” was written just before Tony and I joined the band, and the first one that was written when we joined was “Hero,” which has a little more of an edge to it. One this new album, the first single, “Last Man Standing,” was one that Tony and I had our hands in even more. It’s probably one of the heaviest songs that Pop Evil has, but we still go back to “100 In A 55” and we have a couple of songs that are reflected in that, like “Monster You Made.”
Coming into a band that had been together for seven years, how did you lock into the rhythm section with Dylan? How much of the original blueprint did you follow and how much of it was the two of you building a new groove?
A lot of it was building a new groove, but it wasn’t too difficult. Coming into any new project, you worry about how easily you’re going to mesh with the guys, will it fall into place, will it take a lot of work, but it fell right in. Dylan has experience playing covers, so he goes from one style to the next, and we adapted to each other quickly. Part of my audition was to do a live show with them, and right after the show they knew I got the gig. I lucked out!
What made Pop Evil the right band for you?
They had the drive. They were playing, and the general appeal to me at first was, “These guys play a ton of shows!” Now it’s kind of come around to bite me in the ass! Not really; I love touring, but it was, “Man, these guys are getting out, they’re going to different states,” and that was a big deal to me. That was the biggest appeal to me at first: I want to get out and in front of as many people as I could. It kind of snowballed and turned into what it is today. I got more involved in songwriting and all the other aspects of it, but that was the main appeal, and the drive they had above any other local bands at the time to really do this and not just play the same clubs in your own backyard over and over again.
Let’s backtrack. What led you to play bass?
Jazz music. I’ve been into rock and roll really heavy my whole life. I never had a television growing up. I think my family finally got one when I was in high school. We had a stereo playing all day, CDs or records or the radio on, and it was always rock and roll, so I played air guitar and never thought much of it until I got to high school and they offered jazz band. Coming up through school I played saxophone, and when I got into jazz band and heard the way the bass and drums locked together, it was awesome. That’s where it began. The jazz influence of hearing how these really cool bass lines intertwined with the drums and were the backbone of everything going on — once I got a grasp of bass I mixed it with my rock and roll background and fused them together into my weird style that I play now. What we do and a lot of bass that I play on the record doesn’t show it so much; it’s really straightforward rock. But even when we’re writing, a lot of the jazz influence comes out where you switch out the time and different ideas spark and help with the songwriting.
Are you the only schooled musician in the band?
No. Tony has only ever played guitar. He never had a different job in his life. He started guitar lessons when he was 8 or 10 years old and it came full circle for him. By the time he was in high school he started teaching, and that’s all he ever did until the band took off. He would play shows, teach guitar lessons, and about two years ago his old guitar instructor came with us to tech and tune the guitars. He taught Tony how to play and we took him out on tour and hired him to tune Tony’s guitar. It’s pretty interesting how that came back around. He had a great time with us, too.
What type of music did you play in your previous bands?
I played really heavy metal, and because of that I only played maybe five or six shows a year, and the rest was practicing three or four times a week. Part of the appeal of Pop Evil was how many shows they played. It always seemed that there was so much work with these other bands with so little payoff to actually go out and play our music in front of people. Actually, more of the jazz came out in some of these heavy bands, where you get the technical riffs, different time signatures and crazy beats.
Did you have much recording experience prior to Pop Evil?
I have a bunch of demos from my old bands. I’ve gotten into being behind the board. For a long time I was recording other bands in the area and that’s how I met Tony. I worked for a guy and ran his studio for him and Tony’s band came through.
How did your approach to bass change when you joined Pop Evil?
I no longer think about my part as much. I used to think of the coolest bass line I could write to showcase me and what I could do. Now I try to think about the songs in general and writing a good overall song. Working with a lot of producers changes your perspective on how you write music, what to listen for, how everything ties back to the vocal, you don’t want to play over the vocal melody, and all the different lines moving together rather than your part. That’s the biggest way that my perspective has changed.
You mentioned working with a lot of producers. How did that happen?
One thing leads to another. We started out with one of Kid Rock’s producers, Al Sutton. Somebody knew somebody who knew somebody in Michigan and all it took was money, so we saved all the money we made from gigs, and rather than splitting it amongst ourselves, we used it for studio time. Once we got in with him, he knew somebody who knew somebody. We did our new album with Johnny K and it was one of the few good things the label did for us — they gave us that contact with Johnny K and were able to get us in to do an amazing album with him. We lived in Johnny’s studio [Groovemaster] in Chicago for three or four months over the summer. He is awesome at what he does. Part of the reason we thought the label would pan out was because we signed in the middle of the last album, and part of the reason we signed with them was they were going to let us keep the rights to our songs. We fought for that because we made this album on our own money, we toured with it on our own money, we got it Top 10 on our own money and we’d done everything ourselves. We said, “We’re not going to sign this deal and let you take this album away from us.” They said, “OK, cool, you’ve got it.” We signed thinking we’d won when really that was their first sign to stop working the album. Everybody we had working for us was replaced by their staff, who didn’t do anything. They basically pushed us to get back in the studio and make a new album, which they would actually make something on. It makes sense business-wise, but we didn’t think it would turn out that way. So we got in the studio with Johnny K, they were behind us 100 percent, and during the course of us recording this album, a lot of changes came about with their staff. By the time it was done, after they’d dumped money into this project, you’d think they’d want to get behind it and promote it, but they said, “We’ll put it out and let it sit out in stores and see how it does, but we’re not going to put any money into it to push it.” The experience with Johnny K was worth every bit of it, but we were close to having to record the album over again, to not be able to use the masters, which is a scary thought. Luckily, it hasn’t gone down that way.
What is the itinerary like on this tour? Do you have any practice time?
This tour has been five or six shows on and one or two days off pretty steadily, and the days off are to drive. We always have a guitar amp and a couple of guitars in the back lounge of the bus and we play before the show. We do a lot of radio stuff from city to city, playing for the fans with acoustic setups and doing meet-and-greets where we’ll jam out, so we’re always playing, even on days off. We practice and record new riffs. We have a stockpile of song ideas.
Would you like to do more acoustic gigs?
Yes, for sure. Right now we play a lot of our songs the same way on electric and acoustic, and it would be nice sometime to sit down and write acoustic versions to those songs instead of playing the same thing. There have been a couple of different events where we’ve done entire acoustic sets and it’s fun, it takes you out of your element and makes you use your ears more, I guess, and brings out more of the musicianship. Of course, I’ve got really long hair and I like to swing it around. At the end of the day I like to plug in, crank things up and get my hair-whipper on. [sings] “I whip my hair!” That’s it: bass player/hair swinger. If not for that, I might be easily replaced.
And the girls like it.
Some of them, yeah. They’re like, “Man, that’s so ’80s!” “Thanks, I think …”
What should the bass do within the context of this band?
It sounds funny, but being able to do some of these other techniques, like slap and pop … I’ve always played with my hands, not with a pick, and it has helped me develop some moves onstage, if you can believe that. A lot of the bass lines I play are really simple, so I can spend more time developing, like, a show and perform the songs rather than just play them. Some of the techniques I’ve got, like the hitting and slapping, I can tie into some of my stage moves and still have it sound good. I play really simple things, do crazy things with my arms and body, and still make it sound good and bring it all together, have it be tight — and whip my hair — all at the same time.
The industry has changed so much since Pop Evil started, from social networking to music downloads. What’s good, what’s bad?
The good part is that if anyone wants to know anything about us, they go to Facebook. It’s like being able to issue your own press release without going through a ton of channels. And if anyone has questions, who doesn’t Google everything these days? So “Pop Evil album release,” Google, go! And it’s going to pop up. It’s pretty amazing. The band has Twitter, I’ve got one, I don’t think anyone else in the band does. It gives fans a chance to know us on a more personal level and feel they’re more a part of things. The downfalls are downloading. I never expect to make money on an album ever again in my entire life. It’s not one of those things we can put out and expect to make a killing on the actual music. It’s sad, but at the same time it’s not what concerns me. I want to be able to have a career. I want to be able to tour. I want to have people at our shows, and as long as they come out to see us every time we’re out, then I’m happy. However they hear about us doesn’t matter as long as they come out and support us live and come say hey to us.
What do you use onstage?
I use a Kustom bass amp, the old-school full Kustom rig with Dean basses and S.I.T. medium light strings. Dean set up all my basses with Bartolini pickups. Tony uses Dean guitars through Krank amps. Dave uses PRS guitars and Kustom amps. Dylan plays DDrums and Paiste cymbals.
Effects?
The only effect I use is a SansAmp rack mount preamp. Other than that, it’s all amp tone. It’s application and ease of touring, [fewer] things to go wrong. I’ve used different effects in the past and they’re fun, but sometimes you can get lost in this world of effects where you get pulled off track, especially if you try using them in the studio too much. You get pulled away from the song, especially when it comes to bass and our particular style of music. There’s a lot of bands it works well for, but we’re straight up rock and roll, and to have a consistent bass tone to bridge the gap between songs like “100 In A 55” and “Last Man Standing” there’s got to be some kind of consistency in the sound, so I try to keep a pretty straightforward rig.
Is tone always changing for you?
I’m sure you find this with a lot of musicians you talk to: the night that I get my tone perfect, we’ll go to a different place and set up in a totally different room and I go, “What the hell happened? I swear somebody in the trailer’s messing with my knobs. What the hell’s going on?” It will drive you insane if you think about it too much. In the studio you’re always chasing tone, and live you’re always chasing tone, but there are so many variables — humidity, temperature, size of the room, what the stage is made of, all these things affect how the sound comes out of your cabinet. A lot of times it turns into that thing where I mess with it for a little while, but once it comes to show time, I don’t stress it. I say “f—- it” and just get up and play. It’s all rock and roll, and however it comes out is how it’s meant to be. A lot of it is all in your hands and how you play.
Which Dean models do you use?
I play a Demonator. I’ve customized a few basses that Dean has given me. Over the course of this last Christmas we had a few weeks off. I took an old bass, stripped the paint completely and started routing out the body. I wanted to go for a look that I’d never seen before and I was trying to incorporate the title of the new album, War of Angels. I took physical objects like brass knuckles, bullets and knives, set them down recessed into the bass, put an epoxy over the top, like glass, and painted it back up. It’s got real bullets in it, all these physical pieces in it. I’m using it on tour. During the process of making it, a guy gave me a set of dog tags, not knowing I was working on this project. He hands me this set of dog tags and says, “These are my brother’s. He died in Iraq. I want you to have these.” I almost fell over right there. I instantly thought about this bass. I told him what I was doing and I said, “If it’s OK with you, I want to set these dog tags in my bass. I can’t think of a better way of honoring your brother than to bring him up onstage with me every night.” The way that our fans are — we were talking about how the Internet affects our relationship with our fans — they really feel like they know you. When I go city to city, it’s not playing in front of a houseful of strangers anymore. Months before I meet people, they’re online corresponding with us and saying, “I can’t wait to see the show,” and “This happened in my life and this song is helping me get through it,” and “I’m going to bring you cookies.” I had a moment with that guy and his family, and now his family is a part of what I do onstage every night.
Moments like that …
Oh, I’ve had that moment a few times, where it hits me like a ton of rocks. It’s good to be out there and see what really happens in people’s lives. It gives you much greater appreciation for your own sometimes. Being able to share in people’s lives is the best part. Everything we do doesn’t really mean anything until we can give back in some way. Even now, being able to use the name Pop Evil for some things … I don’t have a million dollars in my bank account where I can write a check and give back that way, but to be able to give back just by using your name is the easiest thing you can do and it’s the greatest power you can ever have. I’ve been trying to set up different motorcycle runs. I did a few last summer for various charities where I just get together with a radio station and say, “I’ve got these days off; let’s set up a charity run and promote it as ‘Come out and ride with Matt from Pop Evil.” The fact that my name alone can draw people to do good things — how often is that? That’s such an easy way to give back. Why wouldn’t you take advantage of it? It’s finally starting to get to that point where I can start to give back to the people who have gotten us where we are.
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