Orthodox Jewish Women of Today

The following article was originally written back in 1990, during my second year of graduate school for a social work course called “Practice Issues with women”. The task was to interview two women who were similar, yet had differing views. At the time I had very little contact with the orthodox Jewish world. These two interviews were basically my introduction to the lives of Torah observant women.

The names of the two women have been changed, yet their words have not.

Keren is a forty-year-old mother of eight. Her oldest child is fifteen and her youngest is only a few weeks old. Her life evolves around her children, with whom she “treasures dearly”. Keren is a chasidic Jew. She has a masters degree in education and is dedicated to educating adult women in Torah (Bible) studies.

Chana is a twenty-nine year old single woman, who is currently working on her doctorate degree in psychology. Her ambition is to be a child psychologist. Chana grew up in Colorado and spent several years living in and going to school in Israel. Chana consideres herself to be a modern orthodox Jew, which means she's more liberal in her thinking then Keren.

When interviewing both women, I couldn’t help but question my own reactions to what was said. My choice of interviewee’s was somewhat personal to me. At the time I had just begun an internal search to understanding my own personal views on spirituality.

About two years prior to writing this article, I had recently finished my undergraduate degree in Women’s Studies, and have always considered myself to be a Feminist. Though I was born Jewish, at the time I wrote this article I had never had any “formal” training in my faith. This article really marked the beginning of a twenty-something year journey, which landed me in Jerusalem, Israel for a bit and then on to Baltimore, MD.

Up until I was in my early thirties, I had always believed it would be difficult for me to follow any faith in which I felt was sexist. Now being in my fifties, I'll admit I still struggle with that same view.

The first interview I had was with Keren, and the second with Chana. Because of what I knew about Keren and her personal views on various issues, I was a wee bit afraid of what my reactions would be to interviewing her. I had never spoken to an ultra-orthodox woman before and was afraid. I knew going in that I needed to remain as unbiased and open to views that were opposed to my own.

From previous conversations I had with Chana, I knew we thought more alike, and didn’t believe I would feel as guarded during the interviewing process.

Chana was aware that I had interviewed Keren prior to interviewing her, yet was not aware of Keren's response or my reactions to them. It was very interesting that during the interviewing process, Chana felt the need to clarify the differences in the way she thought Keren would have responded to the same questions I was asking her. Both Chana and Keren knew of the other, yet they had never met in person. They came from two very different branches of the orthodox Jewish world.

I started out the interview asking Keren about her views regarding women and employment. Keren shared that she felt that a women should have the same opportunities as a man. “A woman is a human being and has needs just like men do.” “According to Jewish customs women are to handle the business in the home. Jewish women throughout history were the primary business person. The men’s primary responsibility was to study Torah (the Jewish bible). To help the families out women were expected to be educated. They needed to be able to travel and learn several languages to be able to communicate with the outside world. It was also important for them to know math.”

“Women are naturally more spiritual then men, so their need to study the Torah was lessen. Males need to be more public.” “Men are required to be a part of a minion (to say prayers three times a day), you need ten men. . . By nature men need to be a part of a group”. “Women are in the homes, behind the scenes. . . Women are just innately closer to God. . . They can do things alone, and don’t need to be a part of a group. It’s more natural for them due to their own spirituality.” “Women don’t need all the extras to pray (the various articles of clothing men need to wear.”

“Jewish women have nothing to prove, like men do. The whole women’s movement is confusing to most orthodox women. We are told that we are being exploited or being treated as less then a person. I see it as if we are just half of the whole. Men being the other half.”

“Working either in or out of the home has always been an important aspect of being a Jewish woman. A career or just having a job is important depending on what’s important to the individuals involved.”

When Chana was asked about employment, she felt that “employment: career vs. a job, was an individual choice.” “It doesn’t matter if the person is male or female, each individual has their own priorities. The order of importance varies from one person to the next. family, job career. It’s all a matter of choice”.

Chana also felt that “women with children also need to have the choice. A man who wants to stay at home to do child care, should be allowed to do so. Our society needs to allow him the choice”. “The bottom line is providing the children with good childcare. If you do’t that’s neglect.”

Chana continued by saying that “in Israel there is a system were both parents can work and free child care is provided in exchange for the work the woman does. They feel if a woman wants to have a life outside the home she should be able to do so. This is also a way of reducing parental stress”.

I questioned Chana about this exchange. I asked if a man’s income level was beneath what the woman’s earning potential was, could the man’s salary be used in the exchange instead? Chana looked puzzled and responded, “No I believe it couldn’t. I never thought about it that way.”

When interviewing Keren I found myself holding back, not wanting to question her responses. I was saddened that she bought into the theory women didn’t need to study the Torah as much as men and that women didn’t need groups or peers for support. I should also note that Keren shared with me that because women were not required to study or say certain prayers, that it was as if they were banned from doing so.

Listening to Keren’s responses, I kept thinking of the movie “Yental”, which stared Barbra Streisand. It was a movie of a young woman who wanted to study the Torah. The only way she could do so was in secrecy. “Yental” finally disguised herself as a man and then was able to study at a Yeshiva (Jewish bible university). I couldn’t help but think about how sad to think of the extremes Jewish women from the past had to go to, if they wanted to have a real Torah education.

During my conversation with Keren, she also mentioned that orthodox women were not allowed to become rabbis –– and if one would want to they would have to choose to leave the Torah observant world and join another movement within Judaism (i.e. reform or conservative). At one point I asked Keren, if women are naturally more spiritual then men, shouldn’t they be allowed to become rabbis? Keren’s response was to smile and move on to another topic.

When I asked Keren about sexual harassment on the job, Keren placed the blame on the woman. She continued to explain that “orthodox women dress plainly. They always wear long dresses or full skirts. Their arms are always covered. Married women often shave their heads or cut their hair very short, because they wear head coverings and it gets so hot.” “Observant women wear a scarf or wig to cover their heads. They do this as another way women show respect to God.” “If secular women would dress like this there would be no issues with sexual harassment. Women need to be respectful, and then they would be treated with respect. Women need to dress appropriately for work. Women ask for what they get. When a woman dresses seductively, she asks for a certain type of response. A woman needs to pay attention to the way she looks, acts and dresses.”

Chana’s response was completely opposite of Keren’s. “There’s no place for sexual harassment. Men need to be responsible for their actions. When a woman decides to wear a mini-skirt to work she s not asking to be sexually harassed verbally or physically. In no way does the way a woman dress give permission to a man to sexually assault her.”

“Salaries should be based on ability and not determined by one’s sex. The same goes for various jobs and careers. A woman who is an attorney should not expected to make coffee, just because she’s female. These types of tasks need to be shared responsibilities.”

Even though I felt a strong desire to try to open up Keren’s eyes to what she was saying –– I personally didn’t feel I a debate with Keren would be conducive to this interview. I knew I needed to be respectful to her differing views regarding women.

Chana had very similar values as my own. She was much more open to the importance of giving women choices (of dress) and making men be responsible for their own actions and behaviors.

When I asked Keren how she felt about men and women having friendships, she felt that women being friends with other women was much more important then friendships between a man and a woman. “There is a natural bond between women. Sexuality always enters into relationships between men and women.”

Keren continued on by saying that “according to strict Jewish law, a married man can never be alone with an unmarried woman. “No woman other then a man’s wife can ever touch an orthodox man. Not even to shake hands upon meeting or at the end of a business deal.”

“Female/male friendships can only be work relationships or neighbors. A woman can never let her guard down around a man. Female friendships are the only true friendships there can be for a woman (outside of marriage).”

Chana’s response once again was completely different then that of Keren’s. Chana felt that friendships weren’t based upon ones gender. The difference of intensity was more based on the individual then on their sex.” “Various friends have different expectations form each other. Communications are different. Individuals illicit different responses from various people. Chana continued by saying “I have friendships with both men and women.”

When I asked Chana if she would talk about menstruation, PMS, or other female issues with her male friends, she responded differently. “Yes, I would discuss female issues with my male friends, but it would be different.” I would have to have known them longer and explain things to them differently. It might be difficult for them to understand things they’ve never experienced.”

“I guess a male childhood friend would be on the same level as a newer female friend.” I guess there is some sort of automatic female bonding that occurs when talking to a woman about women’t issues.”

Comparing Chana’s and Keren’s responses, I once again find Keren’s statements to be quiet sad. I do believe that men and women can be friends. The intensity and expectations can be different, yet I feel by isolating ones self from half of he population of the world, one has a lot to loose.

I tend to agree with Chana on the issue of friendships between women and friendships between men and women. Women seem to have some sort of automatic bonding precess when it comes to discussing women’s issues, yet friendships with men can also have a great deal to offer.

When I asked both Keren and Chana to comment on the relationships with men and their roles in families, both tended to agree on some aspects and disagree on others.

Keren spoke about various marriages when she knew about. They all vary from family to family. “the roles need to be flexible. Sharing is of utmost importance. A woman with young children will have different needs than a woman with other children. The relationships change daily and so do the many roles of a husband and wife”.

Chana basically said the same thing. She spoke of delegating “jobs/roles” for each family member. It was important to her that “the man and woman were fair with each other with their expectations of each others roles.

Keren held the view that it was more important for the husband to network with other men and that it was Okay for a woman to be more isolated. Chana believed that it was important for both the husband and wife to be able to network outside the home.

When the questions regarding reproductive rights came up, both Keren and Chana held totally different opinions. Keren is adamantly opposed to abortion. Chana believes in giving each individuals woman the freedom of choice.

Keren stated that “women are blessed because we have the ability to have children. It is the every Jewish man’s responsibility to make every possibility of life a chance”.

“According to Christian philosophy birth is the “original sin”. “Jews look at birth as a blessing.” When a women menstruates it’s a time of mourning. It’s a loss of a possibility of life. During this time three is no physical contact between a husband and wife. This lasts for twelve to fourteen days. It is a time of courting and relationship development.”

“At the time of creation (conception) there are three partners. The woman, the man and God. At the end of the twelve to fourteen days the women goes to the Mikvah (a ritual bath). It is a spiritual time. A re-birth of sorts.”

“When a fetus is in the womb they are in the hands of God, surrounded by water. When a woman goest to the Mikva it is for the same reason. it’s a way of washing away the loss. It’s not because she is dirty, but a metaphor of a new beginning.

“It’s interesting the Mikva is where the Christians got their idea of a baptism and how they become re-born”.

“When a woman goes to the Mikva she is going before God. She is vulnerable to the water, if she stays in to long she may never come out. She goes before God and then returns to her husband. This is an example of how precious life is.”

“Under Jewish law women are required to go to the Mikva, men are not. Men are given the option. Some never go and others go all the time. Going to the Mikvah is a spiritual experience. Some men go be fore the holidays others go daily before going to shul (synagogue) to daven (pray), for them it’s a spiritual high”.

Keren went on to explain how going to the Mikvah changes the woman’s status. “When ever there is contact with death a Jew uses water to wash away what ever power of death there is. Immediately after waking up in the morning, an observant jew washes their hands. Sleeping is close to a death experience. When ever one sleeps more then twenty minutes, one must wash their hands immediately upon awakening.

“After going to the cemetery it is common practice before entering a home there will be a pitcher of water outside so one can cleans themselves of the death experience.”

“When a Jewish couple is married a contract is signed. One part of this contract discusses the obligation of the man to reproduce. The woman is not obligated. There is no pressure on her.” “Jewish women don’t have to use headaches as an excuse.”

“After ten years of a marriage if no children are produced either party can request a divorce. If a man denies sex to his wife it is also grounds for a divorce. Women are never seen as a sex object. This is because they dress carefully. A woman is always treated like a princess.”

Only men can request a jewish divorce. A woman can not remarry unless she gets a “Get” (Jewish divorce). There was case a few years ago of domestic violence. The husband refused to give his wife a “Get”. Finally the decision was made that three large rabbis would go to his home and stay there until he agreed to grant the ‘Get’”. That is one of the many reasons why domestic violence is extremely uncommon in an orthodox household.” A few days after the interview with Keren, I asked an orthodox rabbi I knew about the three men “staying there until a ‘Get’ was granted. The rabbi explained to me that usually the three large sized rabbis would stay and beat the husband until he agreed to grant a ‘Get’ to a woman.

Keren continued on to say that “to have an abortion, is killing a potential life. In cases of rape and incest, a woman can quietly have the child and give it up for adoption. There are so many childless Jewish couples would jump at the chance at raising a child”.

“I feel there should be laws against abortion. So many women just don’t understand how precious life is and what a miracle birth can be. At the time of conception God is there. how can one end something God had a part in making?”

“Once a woman conceives, her body because the house of God. A woman has to have respect and be responsible for this potential life.” “It is against Jewish law to abort. It can be unfortunate for a rape and incest survivor, yet God does not give a person more then they can handle”.

Once again it appeared to me that Keren blames the woman. Keren seemed not respect the need for women to have choices. She also explained that most women who are rape ask to be assaulted unconsciously. At one point in the interview, Keren stated that “Often the way women dress precipitates an assault.” I personally don’t believe Keren believed that “a rapist” has any responsibility for their own actions.

When I asked Keren about a man’s responsibility to reproduce, I also asked her if this gave the man permission to force himself upon his wife. Keren’s response was “NO a husband could get a divorce if he was unhappy in the marriage.”

There was so much Keren shared that I wanted to comment on, yet I knew I needed to maintain my composure. It angered me that she bought into this system that under minded the concept that women are just as human as men.

Keren is a highly educated woman. She grew up in a much more liberal home, yet over the years became much more extreme. It felt very strange for me to hear a woman have such strong and extreme views that took civil rights away from other women.

The truth is that I knew Keren’s mother at the time of the interview. I knew her mother’s views were much more liberal. It made me curious to learn where she learned to become so close minded when it came to giving women choice. It was a few days after the interview I learned about one of the rabbis Keren followed in the past who was later accused of having cult like practices and was chased out of Chicago. I was guessing the change in Keren’s views came from the years of studying Torah with this cultic rabbi.

Chana’s responses to the same question were much more empowering towards other women. Chana stated that she personally “would never have an abortion”. The exception being if the pregnancy was life threatening to her. Chana did feel that the choice of an abortion should law solely on the women in question. She also felt that it would be great if the decision process included the fetus’s father, yet women need to be in control of their own bodies –– especially in cases of rape and incest.” A woman at any age should be allowed to make this decision. Even if she is underage”.

Once again I agreed with what Chana was saying. Abortion needs to a choice made by the individual woman and should not ever be a decision made under duress by a rabbi, judge or a law.

Keren shared that she was very content with her life as an orthodox woman. She wished nothing more from her life. The most important things in her life included her children, husband and most important her relationship with God.

Chana wished that both men and women could worked together, and that there were so many extremes. “There should be some sort of a happy medium. Both males and females need to feel empowered. It’s like watching a pendulum swing.”

Both of Chana and Keren have very similar religious/spiritual educations. Both feel that God plays a vital role in their lives. hey are only eleven years apart in age, yet some of their responses felt like they were centuries apart.

I feel it’s important to respect the views and values of both women, yet it is also important not to impose these feelings onto another woman. Each woman needs to be educated and given choices. No one should ever apply pressure or make choices for them, especially when it comes to abortion.

I have to admit that I learned a great deal from what both Chana and Keren shared with me. Both conversations gave me a great deal to think about, and will always be grateful to both women for sharing their thoughts and beliefs with me.

The following article was originally written back in 1990, during my second year of graduate school for a social work course called “Practice Issues with women”. The task was to interview two women who were similar, yet had differing views. At the time I had very little contact with the orthodox Jewish world. These two interviews were basically an introduction to the lives of the lives of Torah observant women.

The names of the two women have been changed, yet their words have not.

Keren is a forty-year-old mother of eight. Her oldest child is fifteen and her youngest is only a few weeks old. Her life evolves around her children, with whom she “treasures dearly”. Keren is an extremely observant orthodox Jew. She has a masters degree in education and is dedicated to educating adult women in Torah (Bible) studies.

Chana is a twenty-nine year old single woman, who is currently working on her doctorate degree in psychology. Her ambition is to be a child psychologist. Chana grew up in Colorado and spent several years living in and going to school in Israel. She is also an observant orthodox Jew, yet is much more liberal thinking then Keren.

When interview both women, I couldn’t help but question my own reactions to what was said. My choice of interviewee’s was somewhat personal to me. At the time I had begun an internal search for my own spirituality.

At the time I had recently finished my undergraduate degree in Women’s Studies, and have always considered myself to be a Feminist. Though I was born Jewish, at the time I wrote this article I had never had any “formal” training in my faith.

Up until I was in my early thirties, I had always believed it would be difficult for me to follow any faith which I felt was sexist.

The first interview was with Keren, and the second with Chana. I have to admit that I was afraid of what my reactions would be to interviewing Keren. I had never spoken to an ultra-orthodox Jewish woman before. I was guessing that my feminist views would differ greatly from that of Keren and needed to remain as unbiased as possible.

I knew going in that Chana and I would have more similar views, and didn’t believe I would feel as guarded during the interviewing process.

Chana was aware that I had interviewed Keren prior to interviewing her and was not aware of her response or my reactions to them. It was very interesting that during the interviewing process, Chana felt the need to clarify the differences in the way she thought Keren would have responded to the same questions I was asking her.
What was interesting was that both Chana and Keren knew of the other, yet they had never met in person. They came from two very different branches of the orthodox world. One Keren would be considered to be chasidic and Chana was a modern orthodox jew.

I started out asking Keren about her views regarding women and employment. Keren shared that she felt that a women should have the same opportunities as a man. “A woman is a human being and has needs just like men do.” “According to Jewish customs women are to handle the business in the home. Jewish women throughout history were the primary business person. The men’s primary responsibility was to study Torah (the Jewish bible). To help the families out women were expected to be educated. They needed to be able to travel and learn several languages to be able to communicate with the outside world. It was also important for them to know math.”

Chana had very similar values as my own. She was much more open to the importance of giving women choices (of dress) and making men be responsible for their own actions and behaviors.

When I asked both Keren and Chana to comment on the relationships with men and their roles in families, both tended to agree on some aspects and disagree on others.

Keren stated that “women are blessed because we have the ability to have children. It is the every Jewish man’s responsibility to make every possibility of life a chance”.

“It’s interesting the Mikva is where the Christians got their idea of a baptism and how they become re-born”.

“After going to the cemetery it is common practice before entering a home there will be a pitcher of water outside so one can cleans themselves of the death experience.”

Once again I agreed with what Chana was saying. Abortion needs to a choice made by the individual woman and should not ever be a decision made under duress by a rabbi, judge or a law.