AP Photo
Legalization of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States is on the Obama agenda and will be pushed by the President in late summer 2009. He and Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez, a Democrat from Illinois, will work together to pressure Americans into believing that the illegals will not further deepen unemployment among American workers.
It will be portrayed as a "civil rights issue" and as "policy reform that controls immigration and makes it an orderly system." After a summer of campaigning in his usual style, Obama will begin discussing legislation, most likely early in the fall.
He will tell his followers that
...immigrants who are long-time residents but lack legal status have to have some mechanism over time to get out of the shadows.
It is important for the Democrats and Obama to provide the 12 million illegal immigrants rights to be included in the upcoming censuses and before the 2012 presidential election because Latino voters turned out strongly for Obama in the recent election and the illegals by then will have the right to vote.
Republicans say they will start working on mobilizing popular outrage against any efforts to legalize unauthorized immigrants while so many Americans are unemployed. GOP members cannot believe that Obama would take on the immigration issue when Americans are suffering greatly from the economic downturn.
The New York Times (04/09/2008) quoted Roy Beck executive director of NumbersUSA, a group favoring reduced immigration as saying
It doesn't seem rational that any political leader would say 'let's give millions of foreign workers permanent access to U.S. jobs when we have millions of Americans looking for jobs.
Beck believe that there will be an explosion of opposition from Americans responding
You're letting them keep that job, when I could have had that job.
While Obama acknowledges that because of the recession, it will make for a more difficult battle to legalize the 12 million illegals, he is already lining up his supporters in Congress to get the legislation through before the 2012 election. However, if Republicans unseat enough Democrats in 2010, the legistlation may never see the light of day.
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Sen, Mikulski prefers immigrants rather than Americans for low-paying jobs
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As someone who lives in Los Angeles I've seen both sides of this issue. 99% of these people who are coming across the border are just trying to improve their lives nad have great work ethics. I have also seen the strain that has put on our state ruining schools, clogging up emergency rooms, huge tax burderns etc.
We cannot broach the subject of immigration reform until in my opinion we see at least 5 years of very strong border security then we could discuss reform, but not before as we have been down this road before with Reagan.
Mark has the right idea. There can be no "reform" of immigration laws without proven ability to shut down the borders.
Undocumented immigrants paying more taxes than you think!!
Eight million Undocumented immigrants pay Social Security, Medicare and income taxes. Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America’s bedrock belief in fairness. But many “pull-up-the-drawbridge” politicians want to do just that when it comes to Undocumented immigrants.
The fact that Undocumented immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two thirds of Undocumented immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.
Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.
In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified Undocumented immigrants from nearly all means tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization.
The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education. Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers.
Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets. The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid.
But no one — Democrat or Republican — seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid — the government-funded health care program for the poor — to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid “theft of these benefits by illegal aliens,” as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it. But, immigrants aren’t flocking to the United States to mooch off the government.
According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don’t have Social Security numbers to file taxes.
One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS’ scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.
No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks.
Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus.
The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children.
The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume. Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed.
To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program.
Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn’t be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs. The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don’t want here in the first place.
With the Senate having just returned from yet another vacation and promising to revisit the stalled immigration bill, politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.
The Undocumented Immigrants pay the exact same amount of taxes like you and me when they buy Things, rent a house, fill up gas, drink a beer or wine, buy appliances, play the states lottery and mega millions . Below are the links to just a few sites that will show you exactly how much tax you or the Undocumented Immigrant pays , so you see they are NOT FREELOADERS, THEY PAY TAXES AND TOLLS Exactly the same as you, Now if you take out 10% from your states /city Budget what will your city/state look like financially ?
Stop your folly thinking , you are wise USE YOUR WISDOM to see the reality. They pay more taxes than you think, Including FEDERAL INCOME TAX using a ITN Number that is given to them by the IRS, Social Security Taxes and State taxes that are withheld form their paychecks automatically.
GAS Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same. Go to and check out your states tax;
Cigarette Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same, check this out in :
Food Taxes, paid by You & the Undocumented are the same in each state check your state :
Clothing Sales Taxes, are the same paid by you & the Undocumented Immigrant;
City Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented, since he pays rent and the LANDLORD pays the city.
Beer Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented:
Dear Martha are you a Immigration Lawyer or Immigration Judge ?? What are you Qulifications in Immigration Law?
FYI;
There is NO SUCH WORD AS "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT" in Blacks Law Dictionary or In Merriam Websters Dictionary, I(f you find this word please tell us which page?
Ignorance is Bliss: Those who have NO CLUE or QUALIFICATIONS about Immigration are those who show their IGNORANCE :)
In the 20-plus years I have spent studying, lecturing and litigating immigration issues, two things have always amazed me. The first is the amount and intensity of hate spewed against undocumented workers. The second is the amount of misinformation that is published about them.
On this second point, the quote from Mark Twain is illustrative. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." I suppose this may be true in part because misinformation, like a lie, requires no accuracy, validation or research; all of which are time-consuming practices.
The recent letters alleging that all undocumented workers are "criminals," and specifically Veronica Suarez, whose plight was written about in the Tracy Press recently, is a criminal are factually incorrect.
According to the facts (as stated in Sharon Franceschi’s Sept. 7 commentary) Saurez entered the U.S. on a valid visa, overstayed her visa when it expired, resulting in her unlawful immigration status. None of these acts, as stated by Franceschi, constitute a crime under federal or state law. Overstaying a valid visa under the Immigration and Naturalization Act is a civil violation of the law, not a criminal violation. Being in the U.S. in under undocumented status is not a criminal violation, but a civil violation of the INA.
The facts, as stated by Franceschi, do not indicate that Suarez has committed any crime. To call her a criminal is erroneous at best, and libelous at worst.
Furthermore, it is an Americanism that a person is innocent until proven guilty. So until Suarez (or any other undocumented person) is charged and found guilty of a crime, it would be inappropriate to call them "criminals."
It is important to note that there is a very large difference between civil and criminal violations of law. The distinction is so important that the law makes the erroneous allegation that one has committed a crime of slander or libel, (which means liability is automatic even without proof of damages). One who violates the civil law is no more a criminal than someone who has breached a contract or accidentally damaged another’s property.
It is true that entering the United States without inspection is a misdemeanor under the INA. The misdemeanor is completed once an individual’s entry is complete. Suarez, according to Franceschi, did not enter without inspection; she entered with a valid visa. According to U.S. Immigration and Citizenship Services statistics, about 40 percent of undocumented persons enter legally and overstay their visas (which, as stated above, is not a crime). Consequently, at least 40 percent of the undocumented population has committed no crime in regards to their immigration status.
Therefore, one cannot assume that a person has committed a crime simply because they are undocumented.
Franceschi is also in error in her allegation that getting married and having children while being undocumented in the U.S. is a violation of the law. It is not. Franceschi goes on to say that Suarez "apparently bought a house illegally." It is unlikely that Franceschi knows exactly how Suarez purchased her home. Consequently, any allegation of illegality is, at a minimum, irresponsible.
It is also important to note that the Immigration and Citizenship Services doesn’t consider all undocumented persons criminals. When the Immigration and Citizenship Services publishes information about its enforcement activities involving undocumented workers, it are always sure to make a distinction between "criminal" and noncriminal aliens.
Another myth is that the term "illegal aliens" is a term of art or is legal jargon. This term is not found anywhere in the INA or in Blacks Law Dictionary. The INA refers to undocumented persons as either an EWI (entered without inspection) or as someone who has overstayed their visa. "Illegal aliens" is a term invented by anti-immigrant groups designed to put undocumented persons in the worst possible light and to instill fear in Americans. It is intentionally designed to associate undocumented persons with criminality.
This xenophobic view that undocumented persons are "simply criminals" comes from the historical stereotype that the foreign-born, especially undocumented immigrants, are responsible for higher crime rates. This misconception has deep roots in American public opinion and popular myth. This myth, however, is not supported empirically and has repeatedly been refuted by scientific studies. Both contemporary and historical data, (including U.S. governmental studies) have shown that immigration is associated with lower crime rates.
The studies have uniformly shown that recent immigrants (including the undocumented) are less likely to be involved in violent crime, and that when there is an increase in immigration patterns, violent crime decreases. This has been shown to be true in large cities with heavy immigrant populations.
In the most recent of these studies, The Myth of Immigrant Criminality and the Paradox of Assimilation (2007), from the Immigrant Policy Institute, it was found that among men age 18 to 39 (who are the vast majority of inmates in federal and state prisons and local jails), immigrants were five times less likely to be incarcerated than the native-born in 2000.
During the Proposition 187 debate, then-Gov. Pete Wilson published statistics that stated that
12 percent to 15 percent of the state prison population had Immigration and Citizenship Services holds or potential holds. The Department of Corrections analyst who compiled these numbers said Immigration and Citizenship Services holds are placed on inmates who were born outside of the U.S. (therefore 12 percent to 15 percent of the prison population was immigrants). The immigrant population at the time in California hovered at about 25 percent, showing immigrants were much less likely to be incarcerated than the native born in California.
In short, the data shows you are much safer if your neighbor is an immigrant.
Franceschi owes Suarez an apology. I am also surprised that the Tracy Press allowed a commentary to run without checking the facts. Although commentaries are designed to allow for the expression of differing opinions, the First Amendment is not as generous with misstatements of facts — especially when the facts can be libelous.
For the immigration debate to be a healthy one, we should strive for a debate based on facts, not myth or tired stereotypes. We should also not let our position on this topic strip us of one of the great qualities we possess as people — the ability to be compassionate.
Arturo E. Ocampo of Tracy has been a practicing attorney since 1985, with an expertise in immigration rights and class action lawsuits on behalf of immigrants, including the way the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 was implemented, Border Patrol’s raids and Proposition 187. He is director of diversity and equal employment opportunity for the San Jose/Evergreen Community College District.
Roy Beck executive director of NumbersUSA is a RACIST. How many JOBS HAS HE GIVEN TO US CITIZENS? NONE. Fools Believe in His Lies.
I am a Native American, asking Roy , WHEN ARE YOU LEAVING MY NATION? You are here Illegally.
Well, If Obama attempts this legislation, I think the republicans have no worries about congress falling back into their hands. I'm sure they can count on 15 million more votes in the mid term than they got this last election and Obama can forget about doing anything else after this.
The immigration attorneys are out beating
their drums early this morning for more
business. They are "undocumented" representatives
and footsoldiers for Mexico's Agenda to create
a Spanish speaking Illegal Mexican Nation
within the borders of the USA!
All of these "pro" illegal (sounds odd considering some are lawyers who are committed to upholding the law doesn't it?) arguments plae in light of the need for diversity balance. Our immigration laws have limits of any one group in any one year achieving citizenship in order to maintain diversity in America. If Obama legalizes 12-20 million illegals, and wait until these illegals literally come out of the shadows there will be millions more trust me, he will be destroying the diversity goals and objectives of our immigration laws. This is NOT a latio country and no one wants it to be but the latios. If he is going to wave his magic wand and legalize lillegals (again odd) then only the quota numbers for each group should be offered and the rest deported.
LAWYER - I am reading the views of another lib no doubt. In
this time of political correctness you should look at your friends as "law breakers"! Our police are called "law enforcement" - get it? Talk to the people in the border cities, they do not share your views! Same as the Midwest. No Rewards For Law Breaking Humans! Finish the fence, and welcome them back to their home!
Forget about how some illegals are hardworking and such. How many rapes, murders, robberies, assaults, drug trafficking crimes are committed by illegals. Please select 1 for spanish and 2 for english.
We are a consensual society under a Constitution that provides rights, freedoms and the mechanics to create laws that we citizens live by. Citizens accept that breaking our laws results in proscribed punishments and full jails testify to the fact. An unholy alliance of lawbreaking illegal aliens, criminal employers and elected officials that look the other way are hypocrites and anarchists. They feel that they can pick and choose which laws are convenient for them to follow and willingly break those that are personally inconvenient. This breaks down our admired legal system and works against the rule of law that we depend upon for our daily safety and national security. All lawbreaking illegal aliens should be deported, all criminal employers should be jailed and elected officials that have failed to carry out their oath of office to defend the Constitution and our laws should be fired, voted out of office, impeached and perhaps charged with criminal dereliction of duty. The 1986 amnesty was a total failure. Never again!
To the big shot lawyer.
Undocumented worker is not int the Merriam Websters Dictionary either. Neither is illegal alien which is the correct term. That term has been used in fed law. Look it up.
Apparently the "lawyer" wants to see more of these people. How can you sleep at night sir?
www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
Great post Happy Indep, maybe Mr. big shot Lawyer will feel some sympathy for the victims of our open borders.
Truth (sic)
I DON'T CARE how much taxes they pay. They are ILLEGALS who cost this country a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: www.tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at: www.transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at www.transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: www.transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: www.transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at: www.premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. The illegal aliens cause $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages.
Verify at: www.transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC RI PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
Verify at: www.transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Verify at: homeland Security Report: www.tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'
Verify at: www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.
Verify at: www.rense..com/general75/niht.htm>
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.'
Verify at: www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
7-8 million illegal aliens are working in construction, manufacturing and service industries and nearly all of these criminals are committing a felony by using fraudulent ID since they are actually on the payroll and NOT being paid under the table.
Everyone, including Obama, is in agreement that all illegal aliens guilty of a felony will be deported.
Truth- Any rational person in California will tell you that the illegal aliens are a net drain on the state.
Whatever taxes they pay are more than offset with the cost incurred by having them here. Just go to an emergency room one day, look at our schools in LA, the higher crime rates, the prison population- the list is a mile long.
I'm not blaming this on the illegals as I mentioned selfish business men and immigration activist are both responsible for this damage. This issue will test Obama's character- Is he willing to do what is best for the American Citizen and enforce our border and laws or will he be a political coward like Bush not wanting to upset big business and left wing agitators?
Please do not call people "nativist" or "racist" when you cannot rationally defend your argument. I for one am all for orderly immigration, but what we have done is an embarrassment. Once we can guarantee that we have secured the border like any civilized country would do then we can have a civilized debate about what do with these people. It is discriminatory to put them in front of the line of any other people though.
Lawyer- I will choose to call them "Illegal Aliens" and I do not really care if you can't find the term in a legal dictionary. You come across as your trying to convince us that you’re highly educated. You seem like you’re in the trappings of pseudo-intellectual dogma.
Lawyer- Just move out in East LA and see how safe you feel- Of coarse not all of these people are criminal, but a small minority of them are and they would be on the other side of the border if we had an enforced border.
I can't even believe that we are even debating this?
Over 2 Centuries ago our forefathers were Illegal Immigrants who came to America after fleeing mad King George of England. Our forefathers murdered the native Americans and stole their land.Hence the words of Thomas Jefferson "I tremble for my country when i think how just God is". The Mexicans are only armed with Leaf Blowers,Brooms, Shovels and Paint Brushes. They work for $3.00 per hour and are not a threat to our national security. Should we also Deport over 30,000 undocumented Russian Jews, are we going to send them back to
Dmitri Medvedev and Vladimir Putin too ?. Immigration Reform is long overdue.
Bring me your huddled masses, still means something.
Zack-There are a lot of fallacies in your argument- We have to deal with the here and now- Was our country founded or conquered by outside forces- yes- but so was every other nation on earth.
You cannot have mass immigration as they will not be compelled to assimilate. This has been proven throughout history. When you try and assimilate huge masses of culturally different people you get Yugoslavia.
Zack,
I don't care about the country, nationality, ethnicity or color of the illegals.
If they are here illegally, they should be deported, with prejudice, meaning they can never apply for legal status.
Zach, get over it. Your comments at one time years ago may have caused pause, but like many other career criminals, once one crime is dismissed or undetected, the criminal gets bolder. A couple of months ago the illegals in San Francisco marched on city hall demanding "job placement." Go figure. Free medical, free education, getting paid under the table, section 8 housing medicare for children, all that just wasn't enough, now job placement? Many Americans are just sick of this. The illegals need to demand of their own government what they demand of mine, and that includes Obama's illegal Aunt who's living it up on tax payers money after being told to deport five years ago. The illegals have gotton far to bold for American's to fall for any more sob stories. We've plenty of hardship stories to go around between citizens.
Maggie, not that is what I call a "real-world" truthful reply. Zack take your head out of the sand and start living in the real world.
Obama better get it through his head that American don't want AMNESTY for these 20 million ILLEGAL ALIENS! We went through this once and we want our laws ENFORCED!
I can't say the ILLEGAL ALIENS are completely to blame for the shape of our economy, but they are a BIG part of the problem. The ILLEGAL ALIENS send BILLIONS upon BILLIONS out of this Country every year, money we will NEVER see again. Does this help our economy?
How about the BILLIONS the American taxpayers fork out for the ILLEGAL ALIEN BABIES, the schooling of them, the medical care and the list goes on, and on, and on.
How about the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS paid to jail ILLEGAL ALIENS for the crimes, then the cost to deport them. Does this help our economy?
Then you have these activist groups, the Catholic Church and the ACLU that want AMNESTY for these ILLEGAL ALIENS. It would be absolute suicide for this Country if AMNESTY were granted to the 20 million or so ILLEGAL ALIENS. We have more and more people out of work everyday and they want to add another 20 million to this Country? I say, "NO"!
If AMNESTY were ever granted to these 20 million ILLEGAL ALIENS, you can bet big money that 3 years from now, there would be ANOTHER 3-5 million ILLEGAL ALIENS demonstrating on our soil for AMNESTY.
An end MUST come to this illegal immigration. The perfect tool we have so far is E-Verify. It MUST be used by ALL businesses and Government Social Services. EVERY employee must be checked! If they are illegal, they are to be dismissed!
I believe it is time for all 50 States to pass a State law, like Arizona, Oklahoma, Mississippi, Missouri, South Carolina and a few others. It is time for these ILLEGAL ALIENS to go back to their home Country and get out of this Country. The problems they are causing will not go away until the ILLEGAL ALIENS are out of this Country.
It's time for ZERO TOLERENCE with these ILLEGAL ALIENS. It's time for them to return to their own country where they belong!
Obama wants to give amnesty to Foreign Gangsters, (Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13), including the Mexcian drug cartel, in America?
Plus every Other Gang connected to our enemies acrossed Sea's.
That would LOVe to See America destroyed.
But the Do-gooders think they can save everybody, when they cannot even save themselves!
@ Zack - It was British Imperialist Institutions that brought about Poor Indian relations, in early America.
Up in Canada the Canadian Royal Mounted Police are still Killing the indeginous Indian Populations, in the name of so called Law Enforcement.
@ Native American - You Lost Your Wars.
No Hatred intended or directed at You..
Delaware Bob seems really concerned that “ILLEGAL ALIENS send BILLIONS upon BILLIONS out of this Country every year, money we will NEVER see again. Does this help our economy?”
The answer is Yes. Think about it. A Mexican illegally in the US washes dishes, pulls weeds or some other work and gets paid $100, which he sends to his relatives in Mexico. Think. What has the US got? Clean dishes, weed free lawns, etc. What has the US given for this work? Paper.
What are the relatives going to do with the $100? Probably not bury it, but if they did the US would have clean dishes, etc in exchange for nothing but paper. If the relatives spend the money—say buying something from Germany—the Germans get the paper. The US still hasn’t given anything for the work except paper.
Ultimately the only way to get something of value for the paper is to buy something in the US. What difference does it make if the $100 is spent the same day in Dallas, or if it takes a circuitous route from Dallas to Mexico to Germany to New York to Dallas? We just get a loan of the labor until the $100 makes it back to the US and is redeemed for something of value.
You can’t eat money. Or drive it, or anything else. It’s just a medium of exchange. Whether it’s used to get something of value today or a few weeks from now isn’t of much significance.
Never see it again? We should be so fortunate.
Bob
Bob Unferth, Yeah right Bob. It is that kind of asinine thinking, that has got us in the position we are in, in the first place.
Bob Unferth sounds like a big consumer of that illegal labor.
Bob- Move to LA where I live and you may have a different opinion!
Wether we like it or not a lot of this immigrants are already here. Every one recognizes that it is inconcivable to depert around 10-12 milion of them, it is not possible. This immigrants are already working in the states therefore putting them on a path to legalization would not lead to loss of jobs on the part of Americans. By legalizing the ones who have not commited crimes and uniting their families we would see a growth to our economy since these people are going to invest their hard earned money here buying houses and stimulate our economy.
Please dont allow fear and racism overcome this issue. All Americans are immigrants in a way or another, Not all of our ancestors followed immigration procedures to come here, they got on a boat, showed up, and were accepted by lady libery. Immigration Reform is in our interest as much as theirs.
God bless america
Ron, I would agree with you as far as the 12 million that are should be worked into the system, but it would be foolish to not make absolutely sure the border is secure for a number of years before I would sign on to some type of reform.
A couple of glaring fallacies in your argument:
1. The 12 million that were allowed to come over have destroyed a lot of middle income jobs as construction workers get paid less now than they did in 1982. This just widens the gap between the have and have not’s. The only people who have made out on this are the business owners that employ them and undercut the businesses that try and play by the rules. Too say that these are jobs that Americans will not do is absurd!! They will not do them for slave wages and Americans still seem some how to be able and willing to do these jobs in other parts of the country where the illegal immigrant population is very small.
2. To allege that is if someone is concerned about high crime and seeing their communities crumble under huge social burdens is a "racist" shows that either you are trying to marginalize someone you do not agree with or you are very immature.
Forgive me but I just don't get it. Under the present assumption that our president has the power to nationalize or provide a path to citizenship (lovely way to put "here's a gold star for not giving a darn about America's laws) what are we saying here? Laws don't count? Well, hey I want the one that takes a good chunk of my income April 15th not to count. Or how about the death tax that takes up to 45% of a person's estate away from families? There are many laws that if we are just looking for common ground, I would imagine most American's would say these two laws bascially suck so lets not pay any attention. No? We can be put in jail? So what we are saying is that some laws are more important than others because they represent money to support our greedy no account government representatives?
I want the immigration law that says no more than 6% of any one ethnic group per year shall be granted citizenship. I want diversity. I do not want to live in a predominently latino country. I want to live in a diverse country where everyone has equal opportunity.
Granting a path to citizenship (sorry I always have to laugh at that beefed up way of saying come on down) for 12-20 million people will, based on history bring on another 12-20 million. This is not population planning. It is estimated if Obama pushes this through and the 12-20 million reproduce at alarming rates and bring in family members at alarming rates, the US will run out of many natural resources and capability to sustain in the year 2026. I don't give a rats rear end who Obama promised what. This is insane.
Undocumented immigrants paying more taxes than you think!!
Eight million Undocumented immigrants pay Social Security, Medicare and income taxes. Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America’s bedrock belief in fairness. But many “pull-up-the-drawbridge” politicians want to do just that when it comes to Undocumented immigrants.
The fact that Undocumented immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two thirds of Undocumented immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.
Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.
In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified Undocumented immigrants from nearly all means tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization.
The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education. Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers.
Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets. The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid.
But no one — Democrat or Republican — seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid — the government-funded health care program for the poor — to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid “theft of these benefits by illegal aliens,” as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it. But, immigrants aren’t flocking to the United States to mooch off the government.
According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don’t have Social Security numbers to file taxes.
One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS’ scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.
No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks.
Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus.
The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children.
The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume. Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed.
To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program.
Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn’t be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs. The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don’t want here in the first place.
With the Senate having just returned from yet another vacation and promising to revisit the stalled immigration bill, politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.
The Undocumented Immigrants pay the exact same amount of taxes like you and me when they buy Things, rent a house, fill up gas, drink a beer or wine, buy appliances, play the states lottery and mega millions . Below are the links to just a few sites that will show you exactly how much tax you or the Undocumented Immigrant pays , so you see they are NOT FREELOADERS, THEY PAY TAXES AND TOLLS Exactly the same as you, Now if you take out 10% from your states /city Budget what will your city/state look like financially ?
Stop your folly thinking , you are wise USE YOUR WISDOM to see the reality. They pay more taxes than you think, Including FEDERAL INCOME TAX using a ITN Number that is given to them by the IRS, Social Security Taxes and State taxes that are withheld form their paychecks automatically.
GAS Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same. Go to and check out your states tax;
Cigarette Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same, check this out in :
Food Taxes, paid by You & the Undocumented are the same in each state check your state :
Clothing Sales Taxes, are the same paid by you & the Undocumented Immigrant;
City Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented, since he pays rent and the LANDLORD pays the city :
Beer Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented:
Ignorance is Bliss: Those who have NO CLUE or QUALIFICATIONS about Immigration are those who show their IGNORANCE :)
There is NO SUCH WORD AS 'ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT" in Blacks Law Dictonary, or In MErriam Websters Dictonary. Get Educated .
In the 20-plus years I have spent studying, lecturing and litigating immigration issues, two things have always amazed me. The first is the amount and intensity of hate spewed against undocumented workers. The second is the amount of misinformation that is published about them.
On this second point, the quote from Mark Twain is illustrative. "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." I suppose this may be true in part because misinformation, like a lie, requires no accuracy, validation or research; all of which are time-consuming practices.
The recent letters alleging that all undocumented workers are "criminals," and specifically Veronica Suarez, whose plight was written about in the Tracy Press recently, is a criminal are factually incorrect.
According to the facts (as stated in Sharon Franceschi’s Sept. 7 commentary) Saurez entered the U.S. on a valid visa, overstayed her visa when it expired, resulting in her unlawful immigration status. None of these acts, as stated by Franceschi, constitute a crime under federal or state law. Overstaying a valid visa under the Immigration and Naturalization Act is a civil violation of the law, not a criminal violation. Being in the U.S. in under undocumented status is not a criminal violation, but a civil violation of the INA.
The facts, as stated by Franceschi, do not indicate that Suarez has committed any crime. To call her a criminal is erroneous at best, and libelous at worst.
Furthermore, it is an Americanism that a person is innocent until proven guilty. So until Suarez (or any other undocumented person) is charged and found guilty of a crime, it would be inappropriate to call them "criminals."
It is important to note that there is a very large difference between civil and criminal violations of law. The distinction is so important that the law makes the erroneous allegation that one has committed a crime of slander or libel, (which means liability is automatic even without proof of damages). One who violates the civil law is no more a criminal than someone who has breached a contract or accidentally damaged another’s property.
It is true that entering the United States without inspection is a misdemeanor under the INA. The misdemeanor is completed once an individual’s entry is complete. Suarez, according to Franceschi, did not enter without inspection; she entered with a valid visa. According to U.S. Immigration and Citizenship Services statistics, about 40 percent of undocumented persons enter legally and overstay their visas (which, as stated above, is not a crime). Consequently, at least 40 percent of the undocumented population has committed no crime in regards to their immigration status.
Therefore, one cannot assume that a person has committed a crime simply because they are undocumented.
Franceschi is also in error in her allegation that getting married and having children while being undocumented in the U.S. is a violation of the law. It is not. Franceschi goes on to say that Suarez "apparently bought a house illegally." It is unlikely that Franceschi knows exactly how Suarez purchased her home. Consequently, any allegation of illegality is, at a minimum, irresponsible.
It is also important to note that the Immigration and Citizenship Services doesn’t consider all undocumented persons criminals. When the Immigration and Citizenship Services publishes information about its enforcement activities involving undocumented workers, it are always sure to make a distinction between "criminal" and noncriminal aliens.
Another myth is that the term "illegal aliens" is a term of art or is legal jargon. This term is not found anywhere in the INA or in Blacks Law Dictionary. The INA refers to undocumented persons as either an EWI (entered without inspection) or as someone who has overstayed their visa. "Illegal aliens" is a term invented by anti-immigrant groups designed to put undocumented persons in the worst possible light and to instill fear in Americans. It is intentionally designed to associate undocumented persons with criminality.
This xenophobic view that undocumented persons are "simply criminals" comes from the historical stereotype that the foreign-born, especially undocumented immigrants, are responsible for higher crime rates. This misconception has deep roots in American public opinion and popular myth. This myth, however, is not supported empirically and has repeatedly been refuted by scientific studies. Both contemporary and historical data, (including U.S. governmental studies) have shown that immigration is associated with lower crime rates.
The studies have uniformly shown that recent immigrants (including the undocumented) are less likely to be involved in violent crime, and that when there is an increase in immigration patterns, violent crime decreases. This has been shown to be true in large cities with heavy immigrant populations.
In the most recent of these studies, The Myth of Immigrant Criminality and the Paradox of Assimilation (2007), from the Immigrant Policy Institute, it was found that among men age 18 to 39 (who are the vast majority of inmates in federal and state prisons and local jails), immigrants were five times less likely to be incarcerated than the native-born in 2000.
During the Proposition 187 debate, then-Gov. Pete Wilson published statistics that stated that
12 percent to 15 percent of the state prison population had Immigration and Citizenship Services holds or potential holds. The Department of Corrections analyst who compiled these numbers said Immigration and Citizenship Services holds are placed on inmates who were born outside of the U.S. (therefore 12 percent to 15 percent of the prison population was immigrants). The immigrant population at the time in California hovered at about 25 percent, showing immigrants were much less likely to be incarcerated than the native born in California.
In short, the data shows you are much safer if your neighbor is an immigrant.
Franceschi owes Suarez an apology. I am also surprised that the Tracy Press allowed a commentary to run without checking the facts. Although commentaries are designed to allow for the expression of differing opinions, the First Amendment is not as generous with misstatements of facts — especially when the facts can be libelous.
For the immigration debate to be a healthy one, we should strive for a debate based on facts, not myth or tired stereotypes. We should also not let our position on this topic strip us of one of the great qualities we possess as people — the ability to be compassionate.
Arturo E. Ocampo of Tracy has been a practicing attorney since 1985, with an expertise in immigration rights and class action lawsuits on behalf of immigrants, including the way the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 was implemented, Border Patrol’s raids and Proposition 187. He is director of diversity and equal employment opportunity for the San Jose/Evergreen Community College District.
Why are we paying so much attention to the line jumpers? In essence, they are telling us that we don't move fast enough for them so we should change our laws to accommodate them. If we feel insulted that people who are here illegally are telling us how to design our immigration plan (we already have one), then we are called racist. I am an African American woman. I am NOT a racist! I have many immigrant friends, I don't care what color they are. I do, however, strongly resent those who go through any means to get into this country. Just because they want and need, does not mean they can have. I have had many extremely negative experiences with Mexicans who have told me that they owned this land before and are here to take it back. They never say what type of government they are bringing, just the fact that they are "taking over." This is very scary to me, because the Mexican government has always been, at best, on the brink of shambles. In addition, the people who come here are people that are ignored by their government, so what are they bringing? Nothing!!! Do your own lawn! As far as immigrants and welfare benefits are concerned, they can't take advantage of them legally, but with fake documents, they do! Two years ago I lived over a family of illegal Mexican immigrants. This was in an upper middle class neighborhood. The landlord had allowed her gardner and his girlfriend to move into the space below me. I lived in a 1200 sq ft home, and the Mexicans lived in a 750 sq ft mother in law below. When they moved in the family consisted of 1 adult male, 1 adult female, and 1 child approx 6 yrs. In 2 years later, the adult female had 2 more children, and 7 adult males moved in overnight. We shared the same mailbox. Like clock work, a welfare check came to the female each month, it was from DSHS (sp?). The adult male had approx 5 bank accounts that were opened with different variations of his name. In the small space that they lived in, they had a 30-40" TV that the female played loudly all day...she didn't work. I tried reporting this, nothing ever happened. Call me a racist, but this is not the America that I want. Don't care where you came from, just do it right and respect the culture that is already in place. One more thing, Mexicans are quick to call everyone racist. They don't own their own racism. There is a movement among Mexican gangs calling for ethnic cleansing...specifically African Americans. The press tends to downplay this, but in jails (where I work), the hate that Mexicans have for AA's is quite overt. Also, one of the Mexican national heroes is Mime Pignon (sp?). It is a black, big lipped, monkey looking black boy who always gets into trouble. They issued a national stamp with his image. Also, Mexican kids love to read his comic books. Enough!!! If amnesty, dream act, or anything of this kind is passed, I WILL BE THE FIRST OF SEVERAL GENERATIONS IN MY FAMILY TO VOTE REPUBLICAN!!! This I promise!
Has anyone done a modelling to see the population impact on 12M illegals becoming legal? I am not aware of any, but wonder why. Here is a rough and quick one someone recently did outside the US to forecast these 12M to become 55 millions to 130 millions in 10 years, in less than one generation time frame, in best and worse case scenarios.
12M, assuming 95% hispanics, use 12M for easy numbering, assuming no more illegals ever again (how likely this is?)
average age of illegals 25-35
average life span of hispanics 75
1/3 of them married - 4M (half of these families 2M in the US already, the other half 2M backhome outside US)
2/3 of them single - 8M
50% of the single ones 4M marries within 3-5 years (half 2M to spouses inside US, the other half 2M to spouses backhome, who can joins him/her immediately;)
the other 50% of the single ones 4M marries within 5-7 years (half 2M to spouses inside US, the other half 2M to spouses backhome who can join him/her immediately);
then divide into 6 groups to get estimate and total
already married w nucleus family in US - 2M
alreday married w nucleus family backhome - 2M
to marry in 3-5 years to someone in the US - 2M
to marry in 3-5 years to someone backhome - 2M
to marry in 5-7 years to someone in the US - 2M
to marry in 5-7 years to someone backhome - 2M
average nucleus family size among married hispanics in the US - 5
average nucleus family size among hispanics in hispanic countries - 6
average birth rate among hispanics in the US - 3
average birth rate among hispanics in hispanic countries - 4
G1 will have additional unaccounted children of 1-3M, assuming no growth rate
average number of eligible family members to join immediately for G1 to G6 - 13, 16, 13, 13, 13, 13
average number of elgible family members to join in 5-7 years for G1 to G6 - 39, 78, 39, 52, 39, 39
average number of eligible family and extended family members to join in 7-10 years for G1 to G6 - 78, 156, 78, 130, 39, 78
One can use different assumptions, such as only 50% of eligibles do come and stay, etc. Also one will be able to obtain better demographic data in the US, to run a better modelling. The figures can be vastly different and very interesting! Just imagine the school, medical, police, social welfare...costs and taxes!
God bless America and Obama!
Ya you idiot illegal immigrant isnt in the dictionary because it's two words stupid
Keep our borders closed. I can't believe Obama would even consider giving anything, but deportation to the law breakers of our country. If they want to come over here let them do it the way it has been done for hundreds of years. I don't care if it's a democrat or a republican but don't give them more for breaking our laws.
Wow... How ridiculous/amazing is this? I didn't know people could be so ignorant!!!
What does it matter if he's an illegal alien or collecting benefits.
Well if he's an illegal alien with a criminal record and here
collecting benefits, he shouldn't be, and we wouldn't have to be
paying to prosecute and keep him in prison for the next 7 or so year
until he gets out and kills someone else.
If he's someone that benefited from one of the amnesties it gives us
insight at what we can expect if amnesty is given to the millions of
criminal illegal aliens (all of them) in this country.
It would also be nice to let the public know how much these dirt bags
cost the taxpayer.
Every legal citizen of this country is a victim of illegal aliens, if
not a victim of the enormous amount of murders, rapes, child
molestations, thefts, drunk driving accidents, no insurance accidents,
lost jobs, lower wages, abuse of schools and hospitals then they are
the victim financially because they are having to pay for these law
breaking, tax cheating, job stealing, welfare abusing c
See what Obama dose'nt realize is that the legal mexecan Amirecans,(Chicano's in the United States)did not vote for him they where going to vote for Hilary Clinton ,but had to settle for second hand instead,and only for her did he get the votes.
amazing all whites ignore the little acknowledged fact they are pilgrims....and they "belong" in america merley after a couple hundred years...i say remove the maggot occupier...and make them pay for all the devastation they have caused to REAL americans....
why in usa it's easier to stay ilegal and just wait for these type of laws to be passes on every 4 years or so than being leagal? instead of helping ilegal people that choose to enter this country this way and accept anything that is being offered to them...why not help improve the immigration system, help the ones that are here, struggling to stay leagal, extending visas after visas, playing everything by the book in search for a better life, being leagal all the time and wait years and years until being eligible to apply for a green card? this system sucks!
What does it matter if they are immigrants or not. blacks date whites, latino's and Hispanics and black's. We all date every race and if anything people are people no matter what color we are we all just need to get a long. And immigrants have the right to have access to study, make money to take care of the family and maybe the economy will become better if we open up more stores, malls and places to go and like that we will have a better life to look foward to.They would be much more happier over here why don't they just combine America with Mexico again i think it will be muuchc better that way. i think its wrong that americans can travel and live where ever they want but yet immigrants only have small access to everything including their license and legal status which is not fair at all.. and now that el salvador had problems they get tp become citizens. what about mexico and other states that have have problems why do they get denied and what about other states ??????~!!
Let's look at this logically,
Illegal means breaking laws
Braking laws means punishment
Now those who entered the United States are illegal
That means they are breaking laws
So this means we shouldn't punish them?
No
The key word is illegal. If some one trespassed on government property or robbed a store or commited insurance fraud, would they be punished? Yes. If some one killed a man, kidnapped a child, or raped a woman, would they be punished? Yes. But they would need to be caught.
We don't need more and more exotic laws to punish illegals.
We need a better system to catch them.
First of all do people not know it will cost immigrants lots of money per person to be legal, so if the US allowed a law for illegal immigrants to be legal they will probably get around 4,000 dollars from each person. Do the math 12 million people times 4,000 dollars = a lot of money that will some how help the US economy!
How can people be so ignorant!
Immigrants are not delinquents! They also don't take anybodys job, they usually take the jobs that white people don't want to take because of the low pay, immigrants have to pay more taxes than Americans. Also they don't get income tax or benefits such as Americans.
What about the children that are immigrants that have dreams to go to college but can't because of their status? If they get sent back to their country they can't go to college their because it's likely they don't know how to read,speak, or write Spanish at a proper college level!
Just think about it....
It doesn't matter iuf we like it or not. Somehow, something must be done to fix the current immigration system and legaliza\e (fines, when necessary) the entire indocumented population of the US> Every year, politicians are reeping from these ideas, promising much, doing nothing...coulod we call it "honor among thievers"??
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