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Lively Debate about Vicky Beeching’s sodomy

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Popular Gospel singer Vicky Beeching, who “came out” as a Lesbian about a week ago, didn’t dispute Pastor Scott Lively’s summary of what the Bible says about homosexuality, when they debated each other on British television recently. The video is posted in the article about it.

Scott Lively: God gave very very clear explicit instructions about sexuality. He established the “one flesh” paradigm in Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. That “therefore shall a man leave his family and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” And all sexual activity outside of that covenant that he’s established for us one man and one woman is illicit and lawless. And just because you have temptations, strong temptations, to go outside of that bond, it doesn’t legitimize them.

Beeching didn’t deny that is what the Bible says. But what she could not gain by examining Scripture, she attempted by pulling rank:

Beeching: I have a Ph.D. in theology. There are many ways to view the Bible. I love the Bible with all my heart. It’s my favorite book.

That kind of an answer - “there are many ways to view the Bible” - assumes God isn’t smart enough to communicate clearly.

What she didn’t tell us was even one other “way to view the Bible” than the way Lively does. Nor did she quote or cite a single Bible verse to show us how else to “view the Bible”. And she did it all with a triumphant smile, continually interrupting Lively in order to keep him from completing a sentence. Vicky interrupted to an embarrassing degree, not allowing a response, yet she had the facial expression of someone who is winning. Winning by censoring. The show host did not intervene except to interrupt Vicky a couple of times so he could hit Lively himself.

Lively created a brochure he would like to get to America’s pastors and church goers. See He believes pastors have not prepared church goers to respond to the claims by sodomites about what the Bible says; that is the need his brochure, along with a line of books and articles, addresses. Indeed, what good would it do to load up church goers with a lot of Scripture, if that all becomes irrelevant in the presence of a pretty face and a sweet voice? Beeching’s genre is “praise songs” which seldom if ever identify anything like abortion or sodomy as “sin”. And even those pastors who occasionally preach against sodomy, won’t allow their congregations to put feet to those sermons by organizing, on church premises, to actually push back government promotion of the sins identified in those sermons. Sin just isn’t taken that seriously.

My own Bible study about sodomy

The article about the interview says a tidal wave of sodomite assault on churches is on its way. The article closes with an unnerving example: the lawsuit against Scott Lively brought by foreigners living in another country for Lively’s evangelism in Uganda. A district judge allowed the lawsuit to proceed. If that goes anywhere, it will be a precedent that would remove the Constitution as a limit on our courts, and subject citizens to alleged “international law”, as if “international law” consists of a single consistent body of law instead of ranging from Islamic Sharia to Chinese communism to British relative freedom. Imagine reducing the rights of Christians here to the rights of persecuted Christians in hostile nations!

Here is a partial transcript of the debate, beginning at nine minutes, 40 seconds: (A lot of it couldn’t be understood because of Vicky talking over Scott)

9:40 Scott Lively: God gave very very clear explicit instructions about sexuality. He established the “one flesh” paradigm in Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. That “therefore shall a man leave his family and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” And all sexual activity outside of that covenant that he’s established for us one man and one woman is illicit and lawless. And just because you have temptations, strong temptations, to go outside of that bond, it doesn’t legitimize them. I’m a married man. I’ve been married for 33 years. But being a man, I’m attracted to women other than my wife. But I’ve never given in to those temptations. And all I’m asking Vicky and other homosexuals to do...(interrupted)

For a 30 second Gospel message, that’s a lot of Scripture. It pretty accurately summarizes what the Bible says about sodomy. Yet Vicky ignores it. Without making the case that it isn’t God’s position, she treats it as unfair or unreasonable.

Vicky Beeching: Let me ask you a question. If you’re a straight person, and you say it’s wrong to be a Christian and to have sex outside marriage, to commit to one person of the same sex, that actually gives you the hope of having a life partner. Of finding one person and committing to them. But if you’re saying a Christian gay person actually can’t have sex outside that heterosexual paradigm at all, that means there is no hope for them to have a partner.

10:53 Lively: It’s a false premise. There is no such thing as a gay person.

Beeching: You don’t think that people are born gay?

Lively: It’s a xxx that you adopt.

Beeching: But how come I can’t change the way that I feel? I believe that God has made me the way that he has made me. It took me 35 years to come to terms with that. And I believe that’s actually part of my God-wired identity.

“I believe” and “I feel” trumps what “God says”. James vehemently disagrees that God “makes” anyone a sinner.

James 1:12 God will bless you, if you don't give up when your faith is being tested. He will reward you with a glorious life, just as he rewards everyone who loves him. 13 Don't blame God when you are tempted! God cannot be tempted by evil, and he doesn't use evil to tempt others. 14 We are tempted by our own desires that drag us off and trap us. 15 Our desires make us sin, and when sin is finished with us, it leaves us dead. (CEV)

We are born subject to temptation, but we have the capacity to overcome it.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

We may be “born” with temptation, but we are also “born” subject to the terrible natural consequences of giving in to them, which are our loving God’s reason for warning us to “flee fornication”. 1 Corinthians 6:18. My article explaining many ways sodomy hurts sodomites is titled: “Why laws restricting sodomy will benefit families, America, and especially sodomites.”

Lively: Vicky, God has the power to help you overcome your homosexual inclinations. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says...(interrupted)

Beeching: Your criticism is so damaging to me, and it damages so many people.

Lively: Vicky, you keep referring to psychology rather than to spirituality. I think that’s your problem. You have adopted the thinking of the world -

Beeching: : (interrupting) Like science you mean? Science is not God-ordained?

Lively: (finishing his sentence while Beeching is talking over him) - that being criticized damages you.

That qualifies as the Quote of the Year! That is exactly a big evil of psychiatry. It was the fact that Christianity criticizes our sins that made Freud regard it as so destructive. Moslems are so thin skinned that they put out Fatwahs against people who criticize them – the ruling of an Imam that anyone who kills this critic will have Allah’s blessing.

For contrast, see what value God puts on willingness to receive criticism:

Proverbs 9:7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot. 8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. 9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

Proverbs 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

Leviticus 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Beeching’s interruptions grew in intensity, calling psychology “science” and a God-given tool, until Lively asked, “Don’t you care what God thinks, Vicky?”

Beeching’s astonishing answer, at about 12:40: “I do. And that is actually why I am taking this step, so young people don’t have to listen to the kind of garbage you peddle. Because it damages them.”

Fortunately congregations across America who continue purchasing Beeching’s music and featuring her friendly face on their multimedia screens will continue to find none of that “damaging...garbage” that God is “peddling” in His Word.

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