Last week I wrote an open denunciation of the actions planned by Pastor Terry Jones and Worldwide Dove Outreach Center wherein they will burn copies of the Qur'an on September 11th in order to protest the spread of Islam around the world and here in America, and in order to "reach" Muslims for Jesus. You can read it here.
I first emailed my letter to Pastor Jones directly. Here is his response I received this afternoon:
Thanks for your concern. We are unconvinced that the 'nice' church is winning against the Kingdom of darkness. God and his people were not always sweet and loving to people to people and practices that were evil. We hope you will be interested in the book, Islam is of the Devil, a challenge to the Christian church in general to come out of sleepiness and apathy.
We are sure these resources will be of further help to you, especially the blog:
Ten Reasons to Burn a Koran
and
We hate the Koran! @ iiotd
Resources:
Our Websites:
http://www.doveworld.org In the News, Protests, Sermon and Radio Podcasts, Blog
http://islamisofthedevil.com The book, blog, products
The Braveheart Show: http://www.youtube.com/user/BraveheartShow
Dr. Terry Jones,
Senior Pastor
Dove World Outreach Center
Here is the response I sent Pastor Jones in return:
Pastor Jones,
Thank you for your response. Again though, I ask you, please do not do this. I read your Top Ten Reasons to Burn a Koran blog and NONE of those are, in actuality, reasons to burn anything. They are simply critiques of the Qur’an (many of which I actually share)…but NOTHING there warrants such a foolhardy response on the part of anyone claiming the name of Jesus and trying to reach those for whom He died. Christians in Islamic-majority countries are already persecuted enough. This will only add fuel to the fire and result in the imprisonment and deaths of more who are falsely associated with your actions by fanatical hardliners around the world. Please learn from the Danish Muhammed cartoon incident and oppose Islam with your words rather than with desecrating their scriptures in such a provocative and antagonistic manner. Burning Qur’ans goes FAR beyond speaking truth in love, or even righteous confrontation of evil.
Your actions will very likely have ramifications around the world and result in more suffering by our brothers and sisters in Christ who do not enjoy the freedom to do such things that we here in America enjoy. From the safety of your church property you are instigating harm that will be felt by those who do not share such safety.
You are not being led by the Holy Spirit to do this; it is a human decision that the Body as a whole does not condone. Please repent of this and seek a more righteous way of sharing the Gospel with our Muslim friends and neighbors.
Your Christian brother,
James-Michael Smith
JMSmith.org
"Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children.
In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." (1 Corinthians 14:20)
Comments
Fundamentalists are dangerous.
It doesn't matter if they're Muslim or Christian or whatever. They are the most easily swayed into this kind of thought because they see it as a way to strike back at a world that has hurt them in some way.
Fundamentalist churches are FULL of people who have been bruised by life. Way too many seek revenge for it through religious belief.
Killing and hating in the name of God really makes my skin crawl however.
Your's should too.
x
Great response!
To the fundamentalist response - fundamentally 'love the Lord your God with all of you' and 'love your neighbor as yourself' - I wish the church was more 'fundamental' if you get my drift.
You are doing the right thing James-Michael. Thanks for speaking up.
This is out of context but Zech 4:6 comes to mind when I read about Pastor Jones insulting Islam instead of attempting to have open dialogue with the Islamic believers.
"This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the Lord Almighty."
The quote that continues coming to mind is the one I read just two weeks ago in Eric Metaxas' biography of Bonhoeffer:
"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings."
— Heinrich Heine (predicting the rise of Nazi Germany)
Jones should realize that burning books, no matter what they contain, is forever a shameful and tainted tactic for anyone to employ after the past book-burning has entailed over the centuries.
This breaks my heart and the heart of God...
Of course, burning the Koran is not the way to oppose the evil of Islam. Much better would be to expose the hatred and violence that is in the Koran so that the world could see what Islam really stands for. At the same time, your example of the Danish cartoonists is not a good one. We need more such Danish cartoonists, thousands more. We must never make concessions to those violence-prone Moslems because such concessions and self-censorship will only encourage them in their violence, arrogance and aggression. Let the cartoonists mock Muhammad. After all, Muhammad was a political and military leader, not just a religious leader. For us, he is not a prophet at all, let alone a holy one. More to the point, we need to expose Islam as a totalitarian and imperialist, supremacist ideology. We need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that Islam is a religion like other religions. It is not. Islam is an ideology, and it should be treated as such. First step -- expose the Koran for what is in it
J-M S,
While I still commend your efforts to stop the burning of the Quran, and heartily agree that to do such is a serious mistake, I must also point out that you are just as much in error as is the pastor about to burn the Quran.
You are still under the misconception that it is only 'extreme' and 'fanatical' Muslims who murder Christians, who murder Jews, who Murder Sikhs, who cut off people's heads, who believe in forcing Sharianic Law upon Western societies, nations, and peoples.
You are wrong.
Islam is not just a religion, as are Judaism and Christianity, it is a Socio-Politico-Religious System of Belief, which does not see any separation between government and God, between the kingdom of Caesar and the Kingdom of God.
This is where you go so very horribly wrong and in so doing, allow for the horrific suffering of our brothers and sisters in Christ living in Muslim nations.
One does not try to pet the dragon while the dragon is thinking about supper.
Cheers.
@JR Bailey,
If I might relate this...I have a few non-Christian friends who are convinced that Christianity is a violent, hateful, discriminatory religion. When I show them by my actions that I am not violent, hateful or discriminatory, they usually retaliate with a few select passages (almost always from Leviticus or Deuteronomy, always out of context) from the Bible to show me where I'm wrong. When I tell them they are taking them out of context and that's not how orthodox Christians interpret and apply those passages, they continue to insist that *I'm* just not getting it or they remind me of the Crusades or start showing me news stories about Christians that bomb abortion clinics (which, for the record, I think is horrific) They actually think I'm a lame or wishy-washy Christian because I don't live up to their pre-conceived idea of what Christianity is.
I apologize if I'm way off base here, but it seems like you are taking the same tack as my friends are, in regards to Islam
It's good that you're speaking out against Pastor Jones book-burning, JMS. It's putting your money where your mouth is, publicly.
HolySmoke! There must be 50 ways to leave our Savior! And to quench His holy fire! Forgive us, Lord. Didn't you say that us holier-than-thou types are a smoke in Your eyes?(Isa.65:5) We're like those disciples who asked to call down fire on the infidels. But You answered: "You've no clue what spirit you're of." Maybe if we'd cry to you for Your fire on our powerless lives, instead of setting fire to Korans, You might move! Maybe we could pray for Korans to be burned- but like in the Book of Acts- when an expensive bonfire was kindled by Your new pagan converts burning their own occult books! Hallelujah! But we are the pious impatient ones who could never wait on You for that! We enjoy our man-made militancy. Our blogs. Our Facebook epistles. Our political cartoons & protests. Our fires. It makes us feel powerful. If we'd seek You for creative ways to serve, speak, wash some Muslim feet, lay down our lives for Ishmael's seed, we might see Your real revolution... and Your fire fall.
Hey Mark B,
Believe me when I tell you that it takes a WHOLE lot more than the mild post you've written to even begin to 'warm my blood'.
Your examples concerning the non-Christians are the usual put forth by individuals seriously caught up in being their own demi-deities.
It's either their rules or no rules.
They don't like Who owns the House (or the universe for that matter) and no amount of illustration will ever change that for at least 2/3rds of them.
The other third? Maybe.
However, regardless of their baseless accusations (made fully in ignorance born out of hatred for the Lord), allow me to point out a few things:
1. Nowhere in either the OT or the NT will you find a single command to force others to become Jews or Christians.
2. Nowhere will you find a command from God to cut someone's head off if they don't convert.
The same, CONTEXTUALLY, cannot be said of the Hadith of Islam.
It matters NOT what I 'want' to believe: all that matters is context.
@JR - I certainly wasn't trying to get under your skin. I had a legitimate concern about your approach towards Islam, and it seems that you've answered in exactly the same way as I described my non-Christian friends do so. You are just paraphrasing (you aren't even quoting or giving references) Koran/Hadith passages to me. You're doing the exact same thing that my friends do with Bible passages that they've heard about or have googled. I really don't know what to do with this. You say that Islam teaches that its followers must convert non-Muslims or kill them. Many MANY practicing Muslims say this is not the case. I honestly mean this with the sincerest of charity, but in browsing your credentials (based on your examiner bio), I see that you are neither a practicing Muslim nor a scholar of Islam. I don't mean that to sound snarky. I legitimately don't understand why I should take your word over theirs, especially concerning context. God Bless, brother.
In the beginning, God created man in his own image. Man, being the perfect gentleman, returned the favor.
This God that you’re all fight over is your God. You created it. I see nothing in science, nothing in nature, nothing in the overall working of the Universe that supports either of your religions. You all think you’re being above the fray because you’re condemning this egregious act, but on the same hand you’re agreeing with the Doves that your God is the only God and that the Islamic religion is in error.
God is God, and I don’t think it cares what name you call it. If you want to call it Allah, so what. If you want to call it YHWS, so what. If you want to call it Buddha, so what. That’s our hangup, not God’s. If God were all that concerned about what title we call it, or what holy book we read, It would have written Its own holy… one that would stand up to science, once that would stand up to archaeology, one that would leave no doubt who it was about.
(Continued)
God… whatever that is, doesn’t seem to care about those things.
If God doesn’t, they why do we.
The answer to hate is not more hate. There are good, bad and ugly in all groups. So if this Church group wants to burn Koran, let them, they are just paper. The word of God does not get destroyed, the Crusaders beat them to Koran burning and it did not work. There were over 3000 people who were killed by hate on 9-11, over 300 were Muslim.
Thank you all those who see, hate injustice and intolerance and speak up. Hate is Anti-American regardless who does it.
I even think engaging with "Pastor" Jones simply feeds his resolve in his "cosmic battle", because "liberal Christians" are ALSO seen as the cosmic enemy (demons of darkness). One of the VERY best insights into this "war" we are engaged in is a book by Reza Aslan (don't know if it is the same "Reza" that posted a comment here!), called "Beyond Fundamentalism: Confronting Religious Extremism in the Age of Globalization" (originally published as "How to Win a Cosmic War"). If Google "Reza Aslan Terrorism and How to Win a Cosmic War abc australia" you will find an excellent podcast interview.
I even think engaging with "Pastor" Jones simply feeds his resolve in his "cosmic battle", because "liberal Christians" are ALSO seen as the cosmic enemy (demons of darkness). One of the VERY best insights into this "war" we are engaged in is a book by Reza Aslan (don't know if it is the same "Reza" that posted a comment here!), called "Beyond Fundamentalism: Confronting Religious Extremism in the Age of Globalization" (originally published as "How to Win a Cosmic War"). If Google "Reza Aslan Terrorism and How to Win a Cosmic War abc australia" you will find an excellent podcast interview.
I even think engaging with "Pastor" Jones simply feeds his resolve in his "cosmic battle", because "liberal Christians" are ALSO seen as the cosmic enemy (demons of darkness). One of the VERY best insights into this "war" we are engaged in is a book by Reza Aslan (don't know if it is the same "Reza" that posted a comment here!), called "Beyond Fundamentalism: Confronting Religious Extremism in the Age of Globalization" (originally published as "How to Win a Cosmic War"). If Google "Reza Aslan Terrorism and How to Win a Cosmic War abc australia" you will find an excellent podcast interview.
american christians killed 1.2 million iraqis.
It's one thing to burn something that you own as a symbolic break with the past and a declaration of a change of allegiance, and quite another thing to burn someone else's symbol of faith! The only thing it symbolizes is a lack of respect. While such behavior might have been part of the Old Testament conquest of Palestine, I can't see any place for it in the New Testament church. So sad to see Christians missing the whole point of the cross!
Hey Mark,
Thanks for the reply.
Firstly, I'm a professionally trained Historian: Modern Russian-Soviet History (Party Politics through the 30's and WWII), Modern African History (specialties Modern Cape Modern Horn, sub-specialties NLM's-National Liberation Movements).
Part of my African History training dealt with North Africa and the Middle East, up to the history of the early 80's.
I didn't know you wanted specific citations, had you asked, I would have provided you a few.
I was under the impression that you liked to do your own footwork, rather than having someone spoon feed you information. Should that not be the case, I'll be happy to offer up a few contextual quotes.
Lastly, I provided a couple pointed Islamic specific concepts:
Taqiyya being the most pointed, it is the ability of Muslim to lie to a non-Muslim and it not be a sin.
Pertaining to what your friends say, all I can respond with is: their ignorance about biblical doctrine should be the clue.
Hello Scott,
Whoever gave you those numbers is seriously misleading you.
IraqiBodyCount, a very Social Progressive anti-war organization, has the most accurate numbers to date.
I suggest you take off the blinders and learn the facts, unless you like being a tool of the Far Left.
Cheers.
@JR - Here's what I don't think you are understanding about my perspective. You are saying that Islamic doctrine teaches these horrible things like forced conversions and such. Your support/evidence seems to be radical, fundamentalist, Muslims who do these things and their assertion the Koran teaches this. I see and acknowledge that evidence. But then I talk to moderate Muslim friends, and they assure me that isn't the case. They tell me they have a much different interpretation of the Koran then their fundamentalist brothers. In fact, many of them assert that it's the fundamentalists that aren't "true" Muslims, because they aren't acting in the way that the Koran teaches. I've heard this from both lay and clergy Muslims.
I've done research. At least as much as is practically available to the everyday Joe. And I see both sides...(continued)
(continued)...Which brings me back to my friends who continually try to dismantle and discredit Christianity.
You seem convinced (as my friends do) that all moderate Muslims "just don't get it" and really aren't being faithful to their religion - and your support (just like my friends) is based on the idea that there are radicals who have a wild interpretation of these sacred writings.
Don't get me wrong, and don't get off track here. I'm not saying there aren't dangerous governments out there that are forcing a certain brand of Islam on the public. That's certainly true. But it's not fair to demonize all practicing Muslims as taking part in what those governments are doing.
You keep saying that "Islamic doctrine" teaches this-and-that. But even doctrine is subject to interpretation, and let's be honest - there is plenty of Christian "doctrine" out there that I'm sure you and I would disagree with.
@JR - a quick clarification - When I said yesterday "I legitimately don't understand why I should take your word over theirs" - the 'theirs' wasn't referring to my friends who attack Christianity. It was referring to moderate Muslim friends and Muslims I've read or heard on the radio that would disagree with your interpretation of the Koran.
You've given me some things to think about. I hope I've done the same for you.
God bless.
Jr.,
I’d love to know where you got your degree, because I’m not buying that you’re a historian. Historians understand complexities and nuisances, they recognize historical context. Historians are objective because they studied the “history.” They know the whole story. Your posts don’t bring those elements into the discussion. If you studied North Africa, and the Mediterranean, you would know that when the Moors invaded Spain in 711 c.e. and established Muslim control, Muslims and Christians coexisted mostly peacefully for several centuries. Peres points out that many prominent Muslim leaders had Christian lovers (Analectes, 2:443—discussed in Peres and less fully in Nykl).
Cordoba in the ninth and tenth centuries was a worldwide bastion of art and science and culture, and was both wealthy and prosperous for Christian, Jew, and Muslim alike. It was the Christian Inquisition that changed all that.
(2)
In 1098 and 1099 the Muslims and the Jews fought alongside each other to protect Jerusalem from the Francs, a sect of Christianity. They lost of course, and the Francs slaughtered men, women, children, and animals. Their crimes were so egregious that they’ve even been reported to have resorted to cannibalism.
On top of that some of the greatest poetry ever written was written by a Sufi Mystic known as Rumi—“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there’s a field. I will meet you there.” How about this one: “Let the beauty of what you love, be what you do.” These are profound and inspired words. Dare I say, enlightened words. Here’s one I would love to leave with you. “Silence is the language of God. All else is poor translation.”
I am no fan of the Muslim nor am I a fan of the Christian religion—for one reason. You’re gods are too petty and egocentric which must come from some sort of insecurity. The Qur’an, like the Bible, is both inspired, and uninspired.
(3)
It’s enlightened and it’s dogmatic. It’s epic and heroic, and it’s scandalous and shameful. It is, in essence, everything its writers were. If you’re that convinced that the Muslims are as evil as you say they are, then why not take Paul’s advice in Romans 12:20—If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he’s thirsty, give him to drink: for in doing so, you will heap coals of fire on his head.
In other words, show some common courtesy and genuine respect to them. Isn’t that what Paul would do? Didn’t he become all things to all people?
Book burning only proves ONE thing, and that is that the person doing the burning is afraid of what that book has to say. Burning a book amounts to a tacit admission that one's arguments in support of one's ideas are inferior to the ones presented by the author whose work you wish to destroy. The act of burning a book says far more about the book burner, than it does about the book being burned.
Hey Ben,
A few notes as I'm mired in trying to promote my writing for examiner and doing research for some new articles.
Firstly, I'm a grad of Western Washington University.
Secondly, I'm as objective as needs be in the systematic explanation of Islam: my nomenclature I will admit from time to time does carry some emotive content, however, that emotive content does not negate the specific aspects of my points and empirical evidence (ie, Taqiyya and Jizya).
Further, allow me to point out that you undermine your own argument, pertaining to Islam being 'as peaceful' as Christianity.
Doctrinally speaking, there isn't a single New Testament doctrine which commands a single Christian to advance the gospel by the edge of he sword.
The same cannot be said of Islam.
Your own words confirm this last point: Islam/Muslims 'conquered' the Iberian Peninsula. Last time I checked, 'conquered' in the context of the time period, meant LOTS of people dying.
CONT.
Ben (2)
You'll note that your so called 'period of peace' as it were, of Christians under Muslim rule, didn't come into being (though I reject your stipulation that it was as peaceful as you allude) until at least 200 years after the Muslims conquered Spain/Portugal.
During those 200 years, people lost their lives just as they had during the initial INVASION of the Iberian Peninsula by Muslims.
What part of 'conquered' are you failing to comprehend?
Further, it matters not one wit how many Muslims bedded however many Christians: that is not a sign of anything other than lust and an illustration of Muslim control; such is not evidence of co-existence, it's further proof of Muslim dominance.
Using the love interests of Muslims in charge of the Iberian societies, is like saying the SS and SA of Nazi Germany were looking after the best interests of the Jewish women they raped/coerced into sex.
"Be nice deary or your family will suffer."
CONT.
Ben (3)
The Sanussi poet's words are nice, and very spiritual in a very generic gnostic sense: man creating his own version of 'truth' despite the existing biblical knowledge to the contrary.
However, Sanussi poetry aside, such is not proof of anything other than interesting prose.
I would further point out that I never said Muslims were evil, in fact I said just the opposite: actions can be evil, God loves ALL of us.
What part of 'all' are you not able to understand?
I would suggest you utilize some other history sites than the ones you've been using: stick to the actual University/College sites, rather than Wiki or other non-higher educational institutions.
Lastly, allow me to point out that it was I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), in 1085 when Toledo, Spain was reconquered by those very satisfied Spanish Christians to whom you earlier referred.
The rest of Spain didn't fall until 1492 (ca).
Content people don't rebel.
Cheers.
Ben.....Conclusion
I would close with this bit of further information for you to contemplate.
While I fully reject the complete concept of both the Italian and Spanish Inquisitions (the latter was not initially under Papal control), the inception of the Spanish Inquisition was to eradicate the last vestiges of Islam on the Iberian Peninsula and all its supporters.
One need but consider that it took some 5 HUNDRED years for the Spanish to militarily convince the Muslims to leave the Iberian Peninsula, to get an idea that your nicely told Islamic Controlled Spain was a 'period of peace'.
It was not in any real sense of the phrase.
Were there scientific and medical advances?
Sure were.
And there was coercion, brutality, murder, rape, and torture, all in the name of Islam....quranically/doctrinally supported verbatim from texts.
Cheers.
Jr.,
You cannot call yourself a Bible believing Christian and try to distance yourself from the Old Testament or the crimes committed therein. That fact that you still used the Old Testament for the subjugation of certain minority groups is proof positive that you do espouse the teachings of the Old Testament. The difference between the Christian God and Allah, is that Allah at least offers you the chance to convert before he puts you to the sword. God, on the other hand, doesn’t’ want converts, he just wants you dead. That’s why you don’t find that command in the Christian Bible.
And if I wanted to poke a hole in your New Testament theory, all I have to do is go to the Rabbi himself. In Matthew 10:35-37 Yeshua tells his disciples that he’s come to turn father against son and mother against daughter. If you’re going to follow Jesus, then you’ve got to abandon your family (Matt. 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30).
(2)
A rod is not enough for children who curse their parents; they must be killed (Matt. 15:4-7, Mark 7:9-10, following Lev. 20:9). The epistles don’t change this. Paul went on to write some of the most misogynistic commands ever written in a holy book.
And one only has to go to the book of revelation to see that God himself is planning crimes and violence against humans that makes the Muslims look like cuddly teddy bears. Death is not enough for your God. He’s got to torture his enemies over and over and over again until their suffering is so egregious that they want to die… but they can’t. Then God throws them in a lake of fire and tortures them forever and ever hallelujah, hallelujah.
The fact that you can condemn another’s holy book without taking a good look at your own is yet another sign that you’re only willing to believe what you want to believe.
Second: I have never made the claim that Islam was peaceful. I said, they are no more militant, and no more violent than Christians. What I said is that when the Muslims were in power, they didn’t try to destroy everyone around them whom they disagreed with. Christians ruled Europe for hundreds of years, and we had a little thing called the Dark Ages. When the Muslims ruled Jerusalem, only soldiers were ever persecuted. When the Christians ruled Jerusalem, they slaughtered men women and children. While there are no reliable numbers, it’s safe to assume that your Christians murdered and tortured at least as many heretics as the Muslims did.
Thanks to the Christians and their hatred of knowledge, we almost lost millions of documents from the Roman and Greek periods. It was the Muslims and their love for knowledge that they preserved these documents.
(4)
It was the Christians and their loathing for knowledge that wouldn’t even bury Copernicus because he said that the Earth revolved around the sun. Then when Galileo tried to say the same thing they threatened him and forced him to recant.
As to your statement: “Your own words confirm this last point: Islam/Muslims 'conquered' the Iberian Peninsula. Last time I checked, 'conquered' in the context of the time period, meant LOTS of people dying.” Your own words confirm that you have no concept of what you’re talking about. The Christians ruled Europe for centuries, and people died. Violently. Tortured, burned at the stake, hung on racks, stuck in iron maidens… instruments of torture by the way that were created by Christians for the sole purpose of exacting confessions.
(5)
Also, I find it interesting that when confronted with facts you don’t like you question the scholarship. Interesting—yet you’re unwilling to provide any facts of your own. I know—“Google it.” Your favorite saying. But I’m not going to do your work for you. Especially when you’re going to turn a blind eye to anything that you don’t agree with.
I would also like to point out that Rumi was not a Sanussi. He was Persian, and he was a Sufi. I think that the fact that you think you can determine his relationship with God is violating your own Christian creed in which you are commanded to leave that judgment for God. But your whole tirade is a judgment on a group of people you know very little about. Oh, I know, you’re pretending to, but your argument is so one-sided that it’s obvious you’ve never studied from the Muslim perspective.
Again, to quote Rabbi Yeshua, Cast the beam out of your own eye before you go after the sliver in another’s
Ben, I'm afraid you've stated a number of incorrect points in your discussion below. You may want to brush up on Paul, as well as take a closer look at the OT passages which involve divine command to commit cherem warfare. Here are two great places to start:
http : //www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8276-Methodist-Examiner~y2009m9d5-Paul-and-his-view-of-women--misogynist-or-progressive
http : //www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8276-Methodist-Examiner~y2009m11d28-Bible-QA--the-conquest-of-Canaan-and-genocide
Hi James-Michael,
You’re assuming that I haven’t read the church’s official version of the Apostle Paul. I have read quite extensively on Paul, including the works of apologists such as F.F. Bruce,
I’m familiar with the Christian position on Paul, but I’ve chosen not to limit my studies only to apologetics, and instead pursue more in-depth historical study.
That being said, I will definitely look at the Web sites you pointed me to.
Ben,
At the very least you owe it to yourself to familiarize yourself with the most up-to-date Pauline scholarship. One of the most well-respected Pauline historians is N.T. Wright (who, incidentally, is opposed by many conservative/reformed Christians due to his views on Paul). There is a WEALTH of free resources by him on Paul at http: // www.ntwrightpage.com
You may also want to look into Douglas Campbell from Duke. His stuff on Paul is shaping the field and has been considered some of the most paradigm-shaping work in the area of Pauline studies since Sanders' work in the 70s which gave rise to the so-called "New Perspective on Paul".
No one can accurately claim to have an understanding of the field of Pauline scholarship without at least being familiar with the above authors main points.
James-Michael,
I have come across the name N.T. Wright in my readings from time to time. Based on your recommendation, I’ll give him a closer look.
Ben
From: The 12 Top Reasons To Burn A Qu'ran On 9/11, on Hubpages.com
A quote: You are the lowest form of life on God's Earth, and although you hide behind your claims of Godliness you are nothing more than the true spawn of Satan himself.
Hey Ben,
Where to start?
Your tirade (and that's what it was given the abrasive tone of your multi-part reply) is fully involved in anti-Christian bigotry, as is often the case with those who reject Christ and His Word, basing their responses in animosity rather than calm debate.
I'm sorry you have chosen to mire yourself in hatred.
A few historical and points of nomenclature:
You are the one who cited the poet and misconstrued his sect of Islam with his ethnicity, not I.
A 'sufi' IS a member of the Sanussiya, which is NOT an ethnicity or race, it IS a sect of Islam. The Sanussi sect was prevalent in Libya, Western Egypt, and the Sudan, with overflows into the border areas of surrounding nations (including Berbers rounding to the Northern Cape, staying to the Saharan peoples).
Why you would misconstrue religious sect with ethnicity I can only attribute to your lack of historical training and understanding.
Look it up, library or yes, Google.
Cheers.
Ben (2),
Your animosity towards the followers of Jesus is only exceeded by your arrogant animosity towards God Almighty.
Who are we mere humans to demand or accuse God Almighty of anything?
We are HIS creations, He is the Creator.
His House, His Rules.
God is Just, Holy, and Righteous: it is NOT we who are to judge, but that is His Place to Judge us.
The sheer arrogance and hubris of your statements is truly amazing, that you, a mere human, would have the affrontery to accuse God of a crime, to accuse Him of committing sin, is proof positive that all you're looking to do is to make excuses for your own actions and the actions of those with whom you sympathize.
I note with no little humour, that you cite 'minorities'. You must sure mean homosexuals and others mired with within sexual deviancy, which is indeed a sin, because women are a Majority population in the US and the rest of the world.
In other words Ben, you have personal axes you wish to grind.
Cheers.
There's an old saying, JR. "You can lead a fundie to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Hey Ben,
Thank you for proving my points.
Your clarity is revealing.
Cheers.
The Irony is probably lost on you JR, but oh well.
Bad people will always do bad things. Good people will always do good things. For good people to do bad things one needs religion.
Pages
Got something to say?
Examiner.com is looking for writers, photographers, and videographers to join the fastest growing group of local insiders. If you are interested in growing your online rep apply to be an Examiner today!