Dove World Outreach Center
5805 NW 37th St, Gainesville, FL
Controversy struck in Gainesville Florida where The Dove World Outreach Center put itself on the map with a little sign which read "Islam is of the Devil." When interviewed Dr. Terry Jones, Senior Pastor of the Church said, "The purpose of the sign is to expose Islam for what it is. It is a violent and oppressive religion that is trying to masquerade itself as a religion of peace." Now, I don't want to devolve into polemics just yet, and I hope I will be as critical of Muslim leaders when the opportunity presents itself, but I just felt this was a real "teaching moment."
The people of Gainesville came out in droves to protest the sign. People of all faiths and backgrounds came out with their own signs such as, "Who Would Jesus Hate?" "Love Thy Neighbor," and "God is Great. Love not Hate." The protestors have pledged to stay there until the sign comes down. When interviewed Gainesville residents espoused a perspective that I would share.
Heather Simpson said, "I believe in the first amendment so they have the right to say whatever they want."
Anthony Hardy, a local Muslim said of the crowd, "It's beautiful. You have people from all walks of life. You've got Christians, you've got Jews, you've got Muslims. There might be some secular humanists out here. They're not having this. Especially in a country were freedom of religion is one of our basic rights."
Pastor Eve MacMaster, of the Emmanuel Mennonite Church, said of the crowd of protesters, "I am blessed by these good people. They're great. Secularist, Muslim, Jewish, Christian whatever. This confirms my belief that this is a pretty good place to live."
I don't want to go too far down this direction. I think any person of conscience, whatever their faith or non-faith, can agree with that message. I want to introduce you to some of Dr. Terry Jones' flock.
Meet Wayne Sapp, a Pastor from the Dove World Outreach Center, his 10 year old daughter Faith and his 15 year old daughter Emily. But before we continue let me be clear. It is not my intention to imply that these people's bigotry is a symptom of Christianity. What I intend to do is expose their fallacious reasoning as an example of false ideology, and then turn that laser back on you, my dear reader, and myself, to ask whether or not we make these same mistakes. I'm speaking specifically to Muslims, but hopefully this will be useful to everyone. Now, I'm inferring a lot from a relatively short video, but hey, I'm just some guy on the Internet. I could be way off, and you can let me know what you think.
The first thing that occurred to me was how passive aggressive this man is. Wayne is clearly the instigator here. He uses these sweet innocent children as billboards for his bigotry by sending them into public school wearing a message which is deliberately provocative to Muslims. “Islam is of the Devil” in a military font. Then the family takes a defensive stance when confronted by the media. What kind of parent allows his children to be made a spectacle of like this?
Either Wayne believes his propaganda or he doesn’t. If he is sincere than he believes Muslims are violent demonic fanatics and he is sending defenseless little girls into a war zone with a target on their back. What negligence! If he doesn't believe it then he is a liar and a hypocrite willing to deceive his children in order to compensate for other anxieties, which we'll cover later. If the girls believe this message they live in a world where they told by their father to fight murderous savages with T shirts. And if they don't then they have been intellectually brutalized into espousing bigotry they don't feel. Because they have been raised in full knowledge of the aggression Wayne is willing to bring down upon people who disagree with him. And, I guarantee you a man with this much rage is not a quiet lamb in the home.
Nothing demonstrates this mental fog better than the response Faith gives when asked why she wanted to wear this shirt. "Because I thought it would give people a change in reality and in what they think of God and what they think of Islam." Ok... that's nonsense. And it's not because she's stupid. We're all born geniuses. I firmly believe this girl is brilliant. It's nonsense because she is echoing the rhetoric of her father, which she doesn't fully understand. Faith has been propagandized and is seeking the good favor of her father to avoid being the target of the aggression.
So, we can now derive our first principle. Intellectual brutality is necessary to transmit false ideology to future generations. Children are born rational and curious. In order to convince them of falsehood we have to intimidate them. So, we must ask ourselves, “do we frighten our children this way?” Do we threaten them into obedience? Do we rage in their presence? Do we teach our children what to think, or how to think? Because, if our beliefs are True the child will accept them of their own volition.
Emily's answers are very telling as well. She begins with the same rhetoric, "our generation needs to wake up," "change the nation," "a future worth fighting for." Pure brainwashing. But when asked if she knew any Muslim children she said something really interesting. "I don't have any contact with them at the moment. I don't know why that is. I guess we've just never become friends." Do you see? My dear reader! Do you see? She said, "I don't know." That is an incredibly difficult thing for corrupt people to say, which means there is hope for this girl. She is aware of her ignorance, and that awareness is the beginning of knowledge. She just discovered a huge hole in her ideology, which is she doesn't know anything about the people she's talking about. And soon as she begins to realize why she doesn't have any Muslim friends, the whole house of cards comes down.
So, we can now derive our second principle. Ignorance is necessary for bigotry. Collectivism is false. In order to hold bigoted opinions of large groups of people we must be ignorant about them. So, we must ask ourselves, "do we slander people this way?" If you're one of these Muslims who goes on and on about the Jews you should ask yourself, "do I have any Jewish friends?" If you're one of these Americans who buys all the propaganda about Muslims, do you have any Muslims friends? When we meet people from these different religious and ethnic categories it quickly becomes apparent that our stereotypes do not conform with reality.
And finally there's Wayne. I think this is pretty dense, so I'd like to go over it slowly and really decompress what's going on here. He said, "What kind of stand would you take if today I said that the person you believed all this time is your mom, that's not your mom. So don't believe that. And you had a shirt that had a picture of your mom and it said, 'this is my mom and I love her.' Would you just take that thing off because someone says it's not true and you can't wear it here? It's almost that kind of a response."
I mean... wow... I had to go back and listen to that five or six times to really get it. What's going unsaid here is that Wayne considers Islam the aggressor here. Islam is saying something as hurtful to Wayne as telling him that his mother is not his mother. I can only assume he's upset that Muslims say that Jesus is not God. So, according to Wayne, wearing a shirt that says, "Islam is of the Devil" is akin to wearing a shirt that says, "This is my mom and I love her." And asking Wayne to change his shirt is as egregious an injustice as telling him he doesn't really love his mother. Wow! From Wayne's perspective... this is an act of defense.
There's a lot of psychological issues embedded here, so I'm going to have to approach it from a couple angles. First, the rational. Saying I don't believe Jesus is God is absolutely nothing like saying your mom is not your mom. But even if we accept that for the moment, according to this analogy his shirt should say, "Jesus is God and he loves me." A shirt that says "Islam is of the Devil" is hostile. It is juvenile. Most importantly this statement makes it clear that Wayne has absolutely zero capacity for empathy. He is incapable of stepping outside his own thoughts and feelings and seeing it from someone else's perspective. Because if he could he would immediately see this offense he imagines himself the victim of, that someone would insult his deeply held beliefs, is exactly what he is doing. He is the one saying to Muslims, "you're mom is the Devil."
So, let's derive our third principle. A lack of empathy is necessary to commit aggression which we also condemn. To truly have compassion for our neighbors or our enemies we must be willing to see the world from their perspective. So much evil in the world rests upon this shortcoming. So, before we condemn someone we must ask ourselves, "do we behave this way?" Do we imagine their suffering? Do we imagine their joy? When Muslims riot about cartoons do they ask themselves, how do non Muslims feel about our cartoons? When Americans call for blood after an attack on their soil do they ask themselves, how do foreigners feel about our military on their soil? If one has empathy for those who are affected by their behavior it becomes virtually impossible to perpetrate evil in the world.
Next, I'd like to approach this emotionally. Wayne is deeply hurt. It's always interesting psychologically when people invoke their mother in strange places. Wayne is basically saying, "Don't you talk about my mama!" It is clear when someone says this they are telling you to tread lightly. It is a veiled threat. Wayne is warning us that this topic makes him emotionally volatile, and his open aggression is close to the surface. Deep down this can't be about Islam... it's probably about his mother. I'm going to posit two possibilities, and I could be totally wrong. I'd venture a guess that Wayne is adopted, and that someone did actually tell him that his mom was not his mom. That can be incredibly painful for a child and I have the utmost sympathy if that is the case. In that case challenging his core beliefs would emotionally return him to the moment in childhood when his core beliefs about his mother were challenged, and he would re-experience that repressed anger. My second guess would be that Wayne's mother intellectually brutalized him with religion. In this case, Wayne is continuing a cycle of violence, and like his children, he learned to be an unquestioning mimic. Children processes this kind of aggression by telling themselves that they are bad (original sin) and their parent's aggression is actually love. So, when Muslims challenge Wayne's beliefs about Jesus, he experiences that as someone saying that his mother did not love him, but brutalized him. That she didn't teach him the truth about God, but lied to him. And he was not bad, but good. The emotional content of this is no different from saying, "Your mom is not your mom." But it carries the added blow of saying, "And you are doing this to your children." This is too much for most people.
Wayne is probably not conscious of what's going on. Most people keep these kinds of things buried so deep they can't feel it day to day. But like a volcano it always erupts. Any way you slice it Wayne is misdirecting unprocessed rage from his childhood. Fundamentally this is precisely why he is incapable of empathy. Because if he were the first person he should feel empathy for is himself as a child, which would collapse the illusion.
So, what's our fourth principle? If we don't process our negative emotions as children we project them on the world and inflict them on our children. This is an incredibly difficult thing to do, and for many it requires years of therapy. But we can start by processing our sincere emotions as adults, and encouraging that kind of honesty in our children. When we have an intense emotional reaction to something we should stop and ask ourselves, "Is this emotion appropriate for this situation?" and if it isn't we should examine our histories and see if we can't find something buried we are trying not to re-experience. And when we find it, we should process it. Because, if we don't we are only going to teach this behavior to our children.
Or maybe I'm way off. My deepest apologies to Wayne and his family if I've completely missed the mark here. I'd be happy to talk to any of them in public or in private if any of this struck a chord with them. But ultimately this is not about Wayne. It is about you, my dead reader, and me. So, I'd like to humbly thank Wayne and his family for awakening these ideas for me, which hopefully continue to be instructive. To review, our four principles of false ideology are:
1) Intellectual brutality is necessary to transmit false ideology to future generations.
2) Ignorance is necessary for bigotry
3) A lack of empathy is necessary in to commit aggression which we also condemn.
4) If we don't process our negative emotions as children we project them on the world and inflict them on our children.
I know that's a lot to chew on. But please think it over. I believe it can result in a lot of good for all people. And I pray that we all continue to learn and love and grow both mentally and spiritually. That we can help one another, whatever our religious background, to develop into more compassionate people. I know I didn't analize Dr. Terry Jones' comments at the end of the video, but he has a you tube channel called "The Brave Heart Show" where he has a three part series titled "Islam is of the Devil" and a handful of other videos about Islam, so I will be going into detail on that in the future. If you enjoy this kind of analysis please subscribe.
May God guide our hearts to the Truth and protect us from false ideology. May He facilitate our understanding of others. May he give us empathy for those who offend us. And may He grant us honest and upright children and forgive you and me for any deviance. Everything right and true is from Allah. Any mistake is from myself. Astaghfirullah, wa alhamdulillah, wa lahaula wala quwata illa billah.
Comments
As a Christian I am too often ashamed and filled with sorrow by the atrocities committed by other "Christians". We seem to have forgotten that Greed, Envy, Pride, and Wrath are in fact sins and should always remain in check. Even now I can see the Wrath and Pride blinding this father from simply loving unconditionally as Jesus taught. It is not our place, it is no man's place to hate, control, or persecute another.
For it has been said "That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified." -1st Thessalonians 4:6
And we can take solace, for we will all be judged for our sins at the end, "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."-Romans 12:19
“When you encounter the infidels (non-Muslims), strike off their heads and make a great slaughter among them.” ~ The Koran, Chapter 47: 4-9
"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.)~ The Koran, Chapter 2:191-2
"The curse of Allah is on disbelievers."~ The Koran, Chapter 2:89
"Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell."~ The Koran, Chapter 2:96
"Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."~ The Koran, Chapter 2:98
"Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men."~ The Koran, Chapter 2:161
"Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire."~ The Koran, Chapter 2:257
"Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers."~ The Koran, Chapter 4:
Jeremy, thank you for your thoughts. In my experience every religion has a shadow, Islam included. And I think that's because every person, psychelogically, has a shadow. No need to defend the good nature of Christains to me, I know. But I certainly appreciate it.
Mr. "The Koran Says" - Here's what I'd like you to do. Go up to the top of the page and click the "Bio" button where you will find my person Email. Send me a message containing all the verses you like, including (and this is absolutely essential) what translation you’re using. Make, whatever arguments you like, and I give you my word I will post a response to every issue in it's entirety, and give you a forum to discuss it with me on one condition… you will respond to my questions, and you will conform to reason and evidence. Unfortunately the word limit on these little comment windows makes such a discussion impossible here.
Wearing T-shirts with slogan "Islam is of the Devil" is just provocative name-calling. It is also dumb and unproductive because it leads people to think that Moslems are being victimized. Such T-shirts have no place in school. Far better would have been for these high school students to let their schoolmates and teachers know about the hatred and religious bigotry that Islam teaches in the Koran and the sayings of Muhammad. That would be factual and unassailable. Anyone can check this for himself. Moslem propagandists and spokesmen cannot disprove it. Here is a small sampling of the supremacism, religious bigotry and violence toward non-Moslems that Islam stands for:
FROM THE KORAN:
--“ the (only) religion (acceptable) before God is Islam." (3:19)
-- " If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him." (3: 85)
-- “You are the noblest community ever raised up for mankind.” (3:110)
(to be continued in next posts)
-- The unbelievers among the people of the book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. (98.6).
-- Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
--The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
-- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
-- It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
-- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
-- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
-- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
-- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
-- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
(to be continued)
-- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
FROM THE SAYINGS OF MUHAMMAD:
-- Muhammad said to the Jews: "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. “
-- Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "
-- Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, " None has the right to be worshipped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me." (otherwise it will not). Vol. 4:196
-- Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57
(to be continued)
-- Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel). Vol. 9:50
-- Muhammad said: "Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, …"
All of the above quotations from the Koran and the Hadith (sayings of Muhammad) can be easily checked by anyone just by Googling them. There are numerous Moslem religious websites which offer searchable Korans and Hadith. If you want to find out the truth about Islam, go straight to the horse's mouth -- the Koran, the sayings of Muhammad, and the most respected Islamic religious authorities. Do not trust Moslem propagandists like the author of the article that started this series of comments. They are interested only in polishing Islam's image in the eyes of naive non-Moslems.
Davi, above, says that every religion has a shadow, Islam included. Please tell us more about the "shadow" on Islam.
My friends, the dear family in this clip, i honestly ask God to forgive you and all of us as well and to guide you to the love that you are claiming that you beleive in; "GOD IS LOVE" right.
Peace to be upon you all.
Mohamed Kamal
Poor kids. That dad should be ashamed of himself.
Friend you are being lied to. N.J. Danwood is a terrible translation of the Koran. No Muslim uses it, and NJ Danwood was not a Muslim scholar, nor very fluent in Arabic. He constantly mistranslates words to make the Quran seem more violent. For example: “Fight against them until idolatry is no more.” The word here “idolatry” is actually “oppression.” The words aren’t even similar. I am a first year Arabic student, and I wouldn’t have made this mistake. NJ Danwood is not misinterpreting the Quran, he is deliberately mistranslating it. Here are three other translations of this verse from widely accepted translators: Yusuf Ali: “And fight them until there is no more oppression” – Pickthal: “And fight them until persecution is no more: - Shakir: And fight with them until there is no more persecution” Every other translation agrees upon this. The Quraish of Mecca were starving, enslaving, beating, raping and murdering the Muslims. Fighting against oppression is self defense. (continues…)
Jesus said, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:26
THAT'S evil!!
Friend, you have developed your opinion based on the dishonest scholarship of bigots with political agendas. I understand the need to find the culprit responsible for the world situation… but Islam is not it, and in holding that opinion you hold me and the vast majority of Muslims responsible for the actions of few. I hope you seek more trustworthy guidance. I recommend you Google (Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement Quran) for three widely accepted translations. For more on the Shadow Google (Shadow Psychology). I’m sure you can think of enough Muslim examples yourself. I have outlined below how I will engage in this discussion. I will not get in an argument in the comments section.
Davi, above, says that every religion has a shadow, Islam included. Please tell us more about the "shadow" on Islam.
"culprit responsible for the world situation" = whatever ideologies has no respect for freedom and improvement. You decide which paranoid, backward, bronze-age writings fit that bill.
I am an atheist and I agree with these Christians. Islam is the worst religion. It goes against everything this country stands for - life, liberty, equality, justice for all. Read the book While Europe Slept. Political correctness is being used as a tool to suppress freedom of speech.
"The Koran Says" and "Abdulameer" are deliberately changing the words and meaning of these verses in the Quran, i am double checking these verses right now, and the verses you have read on this website are not an accurate translation. To anyone who wants to know more, PLEASE read the Quran for yourself, preferbaly a translation from Marmaduke Pickthall , and form your own conclusions, do not let these liars fool u and use u for their propaganda.
I felt sorry to those Christians who fail to learn and understand History.
Prophet Muhammad's mission was to propagate the worship of the One and Only God (in Arabic Allah), the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. His mission was essentially the same as that of earlier Prophets of God. In the historical context, many such terminologies about Muhammad, Islam, and Muslims were borrowed from earlier European writings of the Eleventh to the Nineteenth century, a time when ignorance and prejudice prevailed. The quotations below attest to the facts.
Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840
"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."
A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so."
As an Atheist, I don't believe in God, and certainly not in the Devil. However, I have to say that if there indeed existed an evil supernatural being, based on my readings of the life of the self proclaimed islamic prophet, islam would be of the devil.
You don't need to go very far to reach that conclusion:
Mohammed had regular sexual intercourse with his 9 year old child bride.
Mohammed stoned several people to death, including a new mother.
Mohammed had hundreds of captive prisoners of war beheaded, including male children.
...and the list goes on and on and on. Truly sickening.
Those who do not see evil in islam are those who have not studied it enough. And that is the raw truth, if it offends you or now.
Congratulations to Arah who quoted Thomas Carlyle from his work "Heroes and Hero Worship." Haji, you are not the only one who has studied Islam.
Michael H. Hart ranked Mohammad as No. 1 "as the most influential persons in History."
Encyclopaedia Britannica confirms what other students of history such as George Bernard Shaw, Mahatma Gandhi, Lamar Tine,
Annie Besant,Edward Gibbon, Simon OCkley, Prof. Hurgronje and ohters have, who have studied Islam and and History's best human specimen, have said. Enough said.
May the good Lord bestow some of His Grace and peace on the misguided human beings who have given up tolerance and joined the company of bigots.
Ken from Illinois
Great piece!
I love the way it's structured and it always comes back to THE POINTS. It's so easy in those type of debate/analysis to get lost and confused.
Peace.
Oh look another article by a Muslim wanna be elitist playing the victim card and trying to whitewash Islam.
Islam is a religion that allows lying, rape and terrorism. It is the anti-thesis of Western civilization and it deserves all the criticism that it gets.
Davi save the defensive war con. Muslims can wage war for being "oppressed" and that can mean a lot of things. Such as not being allowed to practice Sharia law. So save the con, we have heard it all before. Islam is a disgrace to humanity.
Islam clearly calls for terrorism.
008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
008.013
YUSUFALI: This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
War can be offensive. Davi maybe you know more about Islam than this Islamic scholar? lol!
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah’s Apostle said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.” Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, “O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?” He replied, “Whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’, faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have.”
NY Muslims:Koran Says to Terrorize Them, so we Have to Prepare Weapons~Video
http ://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/08/ny-muslimskoran-says-to-terrorize-them.html
Islam calls for the dominance and extortion of non-Muslims.
009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
Most of the Islamic world sits silently as Islam takes over more and more of the world. Most of the Islamic world sits silently as non-Muslims are persecuted in Islamic countries. Davi is just another Islamic mouthpiece. It is time to end all Muslim immigration.
To quotes from Quran, Sahih Bukhari, and/or any other sources without reference to context shows lack of scholarship.
Christopher, I would suggest you re-visit your sources and if possible, refer to commentary or ask those who have knowledge of background and context of the "quotes." In any case keep reading the Quran and Sahih Bukhari; who knows one day you may be enlightened.
All the best.
Christopher- I am familiar with these verses and am aware of their context. As we speak I am compiling notes for an article on the, "verses of the sword" but it's too much to cover in 100 words or less. Feel free to subscribe if you'd like to be notified when that is posted. But I'm more interested in your person attacks on me. "Oh look another article by a Muslim wanna be elitist playing the victim card." In this article, if you read it, I actually ask Muslims to look at their own mistakes before they play a victim card. I praise people of any creed willing to live in a pluralist society. "Davi is just another Islamic mouthpiece. It is time to end all Muslim immigration." I have said nothing about Islam? Also, I was born in American where would you like to send me?
Christopher - also, feel free to send me a personal Email by clicking on the "Bio" Button above and sending me everything you have. That would help me draft a proper response.
You want to put islamic scripture into context? Be my guest (Christians, keep in mind that these happened a full 600 years AFTER your Jesus saved a women from stoning)
Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses that she is guilty of adultery. After the child is born, she is stoned by mohammed.
Bukhari (6:60:79) - Muhammad commands the stoning of 2 people guilty of "illegal intercourse". Apparently their act was out of love, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.
Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery. Muhammad orders him stoned. The passage says the first stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.
There is much, much more. Sorry to break you the news but there is no doubt that the core of islam is evil laden.
The truth may offend you, but that doesn't mean than people shouldn't know the truth.
It's because of extremists like Christopher that these poor little kids are taught to hate someone they don't even know. Just like them, you haven't done any research. I know you don't even believe the words that you say. Christopher, taking words out of context can not change the truth. Muslims lived peacefully for centuries with Christians, Jews, Hindus and everyone else. They didn't force their faith on others
Here are a few examples:
1-When Slahuddin became the ruler of Jerusalem, he gave safe passage to Christians army to the Christian lands. Can't say that about Christians because when they took over, they killed each and every muslim in the city.
2-Muslim ruled spain for centuries, they allowed Christians and Jews to florish. But when Christians took over, Muslims and Jews had two Choice: Convert to Christianity or Die
3-Muslim ruled India for centuries: If they had force their religion on hindus. Today all of india would have been Muslim.
YOU said:"Muslim ruled India for centuries: If they had force their religion on hindus. Today all of india would have been Muslim." but it is totally wrong just read the history my brother. thanks and you will know how much your ruler torture people till death.
Why hasn't the Gainesville Sun or Christopher Curry (interviewer) ever questioned any Muslim sects about why they are so racist, spew hate and bomb innocents?
Of course, since most Muslims are Semitic, I guess that would be anti-Semitic.
They never get bad press.
If you notice, no one denied my accusations. Do you know why? Because they are TRUE. Ignorant non-muslims, LISTEN AND LEARN:
Muslim (17:4206) - A woman who became pregnant confesses that she is guilty of adultery. After the child is born, she is stoned by mohammed.
Bukhari (6:60:79) - Muhammad commands the stoning of 2 people guilty of "illegal intercourse". Apparently their act was out of love, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.
Muslim (17:4196) - A married man confesses that he has adultery. Muhammad orders him stoned. The passage says the first stones caused such pain that he tried to escape and was dragged back.
Christopher's comments make me laugh; he's so angry and obviously very confused. And Haji, yes, his comments made me giggle as well.
Both of them are betrayed by their hatred of others (not limited to Moslem followers); they aren't fooling anyone into thinking they are smart and cultured or even that they are who they pretend to be. They have done no real research but have only 'studied' with like-minded individuals who have provided them with their 'ammunition'.
Haji, you are incorrect. Are you happy now? I don't think so; you'll never be happy actually. You love having an 'other' to fight, you love targeting someone that's not you. You'll never be happy because you hate a part of yourself, and deep down inside, you wish you could believe that God existed. You know in your heart of hearts that only wimps cannot procure & maintain Faith in a higher power.
Christopher and Haji's comments would have made me weep, if I thought for one second that they believed the BS they spe
they spew. But they don't. They are just instigating...
There you have it folks. Lisa, a defender of islam mocking me, FINDING HUMOR ON THE BARBARIC ACT OF STONING.
Miss Lisa, I do not find one ounce of humor in the fact that the self proclaimed islamic prophet had SEVERAL people put to death by crushing their skulls with rocks until they died of their wounds. You may find the subject amusing, but I trust that more sane people will label that act for what it is:
- Barbaric
- Inhumane
- Cruel
- Evil
You accuse me of hatred against muslims, when nothing could be further from the truth. If you had the gift of knowledge you would plainly see that many muslims are decent people like you would find in any other religion. On the other hand, people need to be courageous to recognize that islamic teaching, which apply to all time including TODAY, has serious issues, some of which I addressed in my postings. I referenced the islamic scriptures for anyone to verify for themselves.
Haji you've done it! Finally after all these centuries of debate from scholars on both sides you proven that islam is evil by cutting and pasting text into the comments section of an article about t shirts. That's awesome! go Team! but... now what?
Should we round them up and send them back to their own sands? But what about the ones born here? Maybe it would be better just to put them in camps. But how will we know who? Should we go door to door with a sword and a plate of pork like the middle ages? But what about the Jews? And even once we've rounded them up... what about the good white people who convert afterwords? We'll have to burn the books. Yes that's it. But keep the comments section. Laminate it. Or better yet, add it to the Constitution. Freedom of religion yes - Islam no! Maybe you have some innovative way of fighting a war on an idea. So far genocide seems like the only way, and that rarely works.
Jason, showing people the evil in islam is relatively easy - no cutting and pasting necessary. LOL!
You provided lots of violent and absurd ideas. I surely hope you were trying to be mockingly funny, although I find no humor in your approach. This is a serious issue.
Perhaps you underestimate the power of educating people, the power of recognizing a troubled ideology when you see one. No violence necessary, only courage, education, and patience. Human nature will take care of the rest. Hopefully in a peaceful manner.
Some of you fools are obviously attention-deprived; is it so hard to make comments or criticism relevant to the topic at hand?
Excuse me for being a racist fool.
Thanks Davi for taking a look at the psychological/social underpinnings for why these debates often rage. It's interesting to note that the four principles you derived from this incident are principles that anyone, from any background, can use to espouse their own views. I think Muslims do fall into the same trap of "taking an intellectual shortcut" - we know the truth, therefore we will preach it without fully understanding the wisdom and beauty that is inherent within it. And therefore we lose the essential message and beauty of the faith.
God knows best.
It doesn't make sense to call 1.5 billions people on this planet are evil because of the action of the few. On the other hand, Islam is the only religion that means "peace." If one does not agree with Islam than it is okay but S/he needs to show better religious teachings and practice them. Your action and example should suffice and the world will follow you. However, the fact on Islam speaks for itself and that is why Islam is the fasting growing religion in the whole world. www.alislam.org or www.askislam.org
Rationality, you would be wrong in multiple accounts.
First, calling islam from being of the devil in no way implies that a single muslim is evil. It does imply, however, that they are influenced by an evil ideology. In fewer words: muslims are a victim of islam. See Haji's postings below, showing mohammed murdering people through stoning. This is a small example.
Second, islam never did and never will mean "peace". It means "submission", as in "submission to the will of allah". A good muslim is a good SLAVE of allah (muslim choice of words, not mine).
Third, the claim that islam is currently the fastest growing religion means absolutely nothing, as from time to time, different religions are the fastest growing. Even if your inflated claim were true, that means that a full 78% of the entire world population does not believe in islam. That's right, 78% of the world say that islam is a fraud - not the real religion.
People need to be courageous and call islam what it really
I'd like to pose the same question I asked in the article, If you're one of these Americans who buys all the propaganda about Muslims, do you have any Muslims friends?
I had 1 muslim friend (Omar), and knew another person that I wouldn't quite qualify as a friend. I cannot call Omar a muslim friend anymore, because he has since left islam to become a Humanist. The other person (name withheld), who never quite reached the level of friendship with me, was much closer to Omar. However, after Omar left the islamic faith, this other muslim person became confrotational in more than one occasion. Omar eventually dissociated himself completely from his old friend. I asked Omar what was the problem, which he replied something to the effect of "his faith is stronger than our old friendship."
Omar and I are still good friends.
Haji - See I find that interesting. Because I've never met an apostate who really knew about Islam. The only apostates I've ever met were either moderate/nonpracticing Iranians who came here and immediately became Christian, which is understandable, or recent converts to Islam who are overwhelmed by the community and leave again... or evangelicals who are somewhat suspicious to me. I've never met someone who understood Islam, articulated it knowledgeably and rejected it. Except maybe academics who never were Muslim. I'd really enjoy hearing Omar's story if you think he'd be willing, even if it was just over email or something.
First I thought: "Davi is only saying that he personally has not met an apostate who understood islam", but on second thought, you would not even have brought this up if you were not one of those muslims who have a really hard time accepting that devout muslims are capable of, one day, rejecting the islamic ideology.
Without wanting to offend Omar, I think he is a person who's life was very normal. So I'll do better and point you to the life of Hassam Nasram (I may have his last name misspelled). His life as a believing muslim was impressive:
-BA in Arabic and Islamic Studies at School of Oriental & African Studies
-3 years as President of the Islamic Society
-Amir of Da’wah group in North London
-Edited an Islamic magazine ‘The Clarion’
-Wrote 4 books for Muslim children
-15 yrs as teacher at Islamia School (founded by Cat Stevens)
-LEFT ISLAM AT AGE 48
Newspaper clippings and his life story as told by him at:
www[.]youtube[.]com/user/discussislam#play/uploads/15/EBY5Vb
Haji - Umm... I think you linked the wrong video. That was "God's Checklist 2.0" Was that correct? I don't think that's the same guy.
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