"Long Island Man Arrested For Defending Home With AK-47," New York CBSLocal.com tells us.*
What happened?
Five men accosted George Grier at his house. From all appearances and their behavior, he said he feared they were MS-13 gang members. He said he told his wife to call the police, retrieved his gun from upstairs and asked the men to leave.
Then what happened?
Grier said the five men dared him to use the gun; and that their shouts brought another larger group of gang members in front of his house.
He said they threatened to "kill your family and your babies" and "20 others guys [came] rushing around the corner. And so I fired four warning shots into the grass.”
He said he knew Nassau County Police (a topic for another day) used ShotSpotter (another topic for another day) and it would likely hasten their arrival.
The result? Grier, who lawfully owned the gun and has no criminal record, was arrested and charged with felony reckless endangerment. If convicted, he will become a "prohibited person," and that's assuming current charges have not already "legally" compelled him to relinquish all firearms. His home defense firearm has no doubt been impounded, and that cannot be unnoticed by those he says threatened him.
Perhaps his attorney has correctly judged public sentiment, and being open and candid with both police and the media will work in his favor. But if I had to second-guess his actions, I'd agree with those who advise clamming up.
Here's what I won't second-guess, although I note many in the "gun community" are doing just that: Grier's on-the-spot decision to fire warning shots into the ground. I've read critiques that one should never do this, either shoot the attacker(s) or don't, and read the rationale that unless and until the mob pulls a weapon you have no "legal" cause, and all of these seem easy calls to make from places of reflection, comfort and safety. We weren't out there with Grier on his lawn, with a pack in front of him and his family behind, adrenalin coursing through him as "fight or flight" competed with...what, exactly? Anyone who thinks there's a one-size-fits-all solution for every unfolding and fluid defense scenario might want to reexamine that conviction.
If his account is true, he had 20+ angry, scary young men in front of his house threatening him and his family, contemptuous that he would have the nerve to defend himself with his gun. Does anyone doubt the most dangerous enemy can be one that does not fear you?
We all know about the Tueller drill, right, and that an attacker can cover 21 feet in a second-and-a-half? Now envision a mob closer to you than that, obviously from their scornful bravado working up their nerve. Would you bet your life--and the lives of your family--that no one would make the snap decision to rush you, and that the rest wouldn't immediately follow?
Maybe you could just retreat inside and wait for the police? Again, you're dealing with an angry mob. What if they don't wait? If they don't, you'll now be faced with having to shoot into more than the ground.
And since when does a free family have to submit to becoming hostages in their own home?
Grier didn't fire into the air and endanger the surrounding community. He didn't fire into the crowd because--well, I can't say for sure, but if he's the good family man he appears to be, probably for the same reason a lot of us might not have--we have powerful internal prohibitions against taking human life. If they had charged, he may have fired into them, but it would probably have taken that catalyst, and based on Tueller, may have been too late anyway.
True, what he did was not "by the book." I can't say I know of any professional who teaches firing warning shots. But it worked and nobody was hurt.
Except for George Grier and his family.
If the facts of his case establish what he's told CBS News, he deserves our support, and the support of gun rights (and other) organizations.
As an aside, note that CBS made sure to emphasize an "AK-47" was used, but nowhere clarified whether or not it was a semiautomatic variant. No surprise there. Regardless, this scenario does answer the frequent challenge from the antis about why anyone would need a firearm capable of accepting standard-capacity magazines.
Also see: "Long Island man could be disarmed for life" by Jennifer Freeman of Liberty Belles.
* Note: If you try to watch the embedded video and get a "still loading" message, try clicking on the graphic anyway to see if you can view it. I've found that I can, and am submitting a report to tech support.
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More on "Firearms in Commerce" hearing
I discussed the upcoming Senate Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday, initially speculating on what it would be about and why it took us by surprise, and then reporting background information from a press secretary.
Des Moines Gun Rights Examiner Sean McClanahan has more.
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What a way to say "Thank you for your service"
On Sunday I brought up the Iraq war veteran who has had his right to keep and bear arms denied by Veterans Affairs. Because the story took place on his home turf, I speculated at the time that Fort Smith Gun Rights Examiner Steve D. Jones might have something to say, and he has.
He contacted the man's wife and got a great exclusive to this breaking story. Click here to read what he found out.
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Trigger Sports RECORDED!
If you missed yesterday's Trigger Sports LIVE!, here's what we talked about, from host James B. Towle:
"Where is Rachel Parsons? David Codrea explains anti-gun bias in our schools...was the principal right? Barbara Crown - amazing White Tail, Eland and Marco Polo...if you want to go! See DVD trailers for Zone 7 Sporting Clays, PanAm Shotgun Championship and X3-Gun plus the full coverage of the Tri-Tip Pistol Match at Hogue Range...Day...and Night shooting.
"All this and more at www.atsn.tv - On your computer, 24/7, when YOU want to see it! The #1 Network for Trigger Sports! DVD's available - but only in limited quantities..order yours today from the ATSN.tv store."
And if you'd like to see earlier shows, check out the Trigger Sports LIVE! archives.
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Comments
My biggest tactical objection to the warning shots was that he fired 4 of them. New York, I believe, bans magazines with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds, and since nothing about Mr. Grier's hardware was apparently illegal, I assume his magazine was limited to the approved capacity.
That means that after his warning shots, he had only 6 left (or 7, if he had topped off the mag after chambering the first round) loaded, to face 20+ potential enemies, if the warning had failed.
Oh--and let's talk about "nobody needs more than a 10 round magazine capacity," shall we?
Can't say I would have done any better, or even as well, though. My thoughts are with him and his family.
To those who would second guess Mr. Grier:
It's a heck of a lot easier to say,"Shoot The SoB!" That it is to shoot the SoB. What he did worked and nobody died.
As far as the reckless endangerment charges are concerned, there must be a requirement of culpability (recklessness) involved before a man should be convicted.
We should ALL stand behind Mr. Grier on this.
Thanks, David
[W3]
The only question that should be asked is who's property were the shots fired on?
If he is the home/land owner he has near unlimited rights to do whatever he wishes on his land. If he wants to herd sheep, raise dogs, run a business, or even WRECK his own property (given he does not make a false claim with an insurance company), or fire warning shots, it is his right as a sovereign citizen of his State.
Even if it wasn't his land, he has every right to protect himself from harm. Police are not obligated to provide citizens of ANY STATE with PERSONAL DEFENSE. They are only obligated to respond once a crime is committed. Show the law where the police in Long Island are REQUIRED to provide personal defense.
This man, at the maximum penalty, should have to reimburse the property owner for damages if there were any. If he owned the property then there is no crime.
Since I'm in NYC, I'll see if I hear anything about NYC Finest's showing up to provide 24/7 protection for his family now.
What was that about NYPD not protecting individuals, rather providing for the peace in the community? I hope he gets a good 2A attorney and that Heller can get some teeth.
I also hope that his family stays safe and that if something happens to his family while he is 'dealing with The City' that he takes them to court and holds Bloomberg PERSONALLY Liable for any harm that comes to them.
Are there resources for families that are in the MAIG domains that get hurt that need legal support? David can you do an article on this so people can use it as reference? Do we have lawyers lined up to sue the cities into compliance with Natural Law? If not,...?
I'm one who usually advises students not to fire "warning shots," for a lot of good reasons. But there are exceptions to every rule, and this looks to be one of them. I'm with Kurt, however, and wish he'd only fired one....
But there is absolutely no excuse for this man's prosecution - actually, persecution - for defending himself and his family against a large gang of criminals. The "authorities" should be giving him a medal, not a lifelong sentence to a disarmed victim zone.
Cops don't like it when you threaten their brethren gang members, so they will punish uppity folks who resist aggression.
In all cases like this, the default position should be to not second-guess the person who is defending his own life and property. He wasn't away from home- he wasn't out looking for trouble. The vermin he stopped from attacking were clearly in the wrong.
Once again it would appear that the law is out or prosecute the innocent and let the guilty go free. A similair incident happened years ago in a sacramento neighborhood where gang bangers threatened a man and his friend. When they returned making the threat again the man produced a weapon and challenegd the gang bangers who promptly fled and called the cops themselves. the cops came looking for the man and when they felt they found him they asked if he minded if they brought back the gang bangers to identify him. Friends, bikers, had found the gang bangers and took three guns from the car. Guns the cops had not found but the gang bangers had when threatening the man. the gang bangers fled again. Bottom line is the cops would rather arrest a citizen leagally defending himself than those causing trouble. does this surprise me. No. the innocent are easier to prosecute and convict. This is what America is becoming.
It's called Disparity of Force in most jurisdictions. The idea that if there are a lot more of them than there are of you, and you fear that they're going to cause you serious bodily injury, you are authorized to fire whether or not the assailants have lethal weapons in their hands.
I'd say 20+ people threatening me is more than enough justification to fire, and to do so into the crowd.
That said, I wasn't there and I support the HomeOwner's decision to fire a warning shot. I sincerely hope that he is able to prevail in court and that his family aren't victims of gang retaliation for his actions.
Once upon a time MS-13 members would have had their pictures posted in public under the caption "Wanted Dead or Alive $1000.00 Reward". It's not like they're an endangered species or anything are they?
And in all this press brouhaha, I have yet to see word one about any police action against the thugs that threatened this man and his family in the first place. Why is that, do you think? Possibly because the police aren't interested in doing squat about the real criminals, as usual?
+1 to that, Henry. Ive been looking myself through the NYC area papers and there has been zero.
It would seem the rights of citizens attempting to secure the safety of their families are less prized than the rights of thugs. So you mean it's spilled out of jail now? Used to be they only had MORE rights than law abiding citizens while in the clink. Appears to have spread...
As for Mr. Grier's judgement, seems he knew there were more of them than he had rounds handily accessible and had the presence of mind to scare a bunch of gutless punks rather than killing half of them and causing the other half to return, emboldened with rage along with the rest of their gang and kill his entire family...
Yay for magazine caps and full-auto prohibitions, they clearly add to the safety of the populace... NOT!! If he'd had a vest full of 30 rounders and a select fire switch, he could have cleaned up part of the gang problem in NYC single handedly... Of course, that would violate the rights of gangsters to threaten people, and BloomTurd just won't stand for that >.<
Long Island, that's in New York, right? Well, the politicans in that State and especially in New York City, would rather have seen this man been beaten and killed, his wife raped and killed, and his children beaten and killed, than for him to have a gun to defend himself and his family, let alone fire warning shots. This way the police get the headlines when they catch one or two of the gang members. Stay out of New York. If you live there, move!
This poor guy is probably going to do some time for defending his family from thugs that our government cannot or will not control. That's about as bad a symptom of our society's disfunction as I can think of.
if we had a bill like penn273 and iowa hb7 working for us people in ny this hole thing would have never happend, check it on the nra ila site, new york needs a law that works for us. email write senitors, reps, and so on lets get a law that works for us......it takes all of you to start asking now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I lived in NYC, I would offer my services to protect his home while this is going on.
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