This ironic, though tragic, incident speaks volumes about looking for proof of God's existance in chance events. It also illustrates a point made by an atheist nearly 2500 years ago. Here's the story from The Register in the UK:
A devout Catholic who popped into church to thank God for a his rescue from a lift was crushed to death by a 860lb stone altar, the Telegraph reports.
Police spokesman Roman Hahslinger explained that Gunther Link, 45, was "a very religious man and had been scared when he was trapped in the lift and had prayed for release".
He continued: "A short while later he was pulled out of the elevator and he went straight to the church to thank God."
Link was reported missing by his cousin, and found the next day by parishioners going to Mass at the Weinhaus Church in Vienna.
Hahslinger concluded: "He seems to have embraced a stone pillar on which the stone altar was perched and it fell on him, killing him instantly. We have found his fingerprints on the pillar. We are now investigating the case further."
Diagoras of Melos, also called Diagoras the atheist, was a 5th century BCE poet and philosopher. Once a friend of Diagoras tried to convince him of the existance of the gods by taking him to a shrine where many votive pictures testified to the gratitude of people who were saved from storms at sea "by dint of vows to the gods." Diagorus' reply to this was that "there are nowhere any pictures of those who have been shipwrecked and drowned at sea."Another anecdote (both come from the pen of the 1st century CE Roman politician, Cicero) about him makes the same point, but with Diagoras being the one in actual danger. Diagoras was a passenger aboard a ship at sea when a tempest threatened the lives of all aboard. The crew thought they had brought the wrath of the gods upon themselves by allowing an atheist on the vessel. Diagoras calmed the situation by wondering aloud if all the other ships caught in the storm also had a Diagorus aboard.
Photo Credit:
1) Diagoras of Melos
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Comments
This really is an ironic tragedy, Hugh, on a couple of fronts. The obvious, that the man was killed is certainly first and foremost. But the second is that instead of thanking and giving credit to those men who most likely risked their lives to save him, he went off to thank God. Apparently fairly exuberantly, if he managed to topple such a stone.
I am so sorry to hear he was killed. Sigh. I hope no one was injured in his rescue/recovery.
Hmm. Maybe he should've thanked the person who helped him get out of the lift instead.
This mans death is completely consistant with the teaching of Scripture, it was his time. Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 A Time for Everything. There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven. A time to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted.
Credit always goes to God first, for it is God who provided the means for rescue, the men were but his hands. The fact that the man was killed anyway only proves who was in ultimate control of this mans life. When you put your trust & faith for your life in the hands of men, you will be disappointed. For they do not have the power over your soul or of life and death. God's purpose always prevails.
God is always the one in control...
"There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven. A time to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted."
Hello E. Muntz. Part of what religion attempts to do is explain the world around us and why things happen the way they do. Now, I'm not sure exactly how old religion is but for argument's sake, let's say 40,000 years. That means humans have been making up excuses for why things happen for... well, 40,000 years. Yours is only the latest in a long line of excuse-making religions. In 40,000 years, the excuses have become slightly more sophisticated but he methodology ("revelation") remains the same and so, as far as the evidence shows, does it's validity: slim or none. That's why this tragedy, which to me would otherwise be nothing more than an unfortunate accident, appears ironic. The idea that it's part of God's plan to reward the faithful fellow's thankful prayer of deliverance from a stuck elevator by crushing him under an altar stone is ridiculous. The further implication that the deceased ought to be grateful to God for the privilege of being part of God's Plan in this manner,
(continued) strikes me as no better than the boot-licking adulation of a slave (or a whipped cur. Pick the metaphor you like best).
Well Hugh, it's like this. One of us is wrong about God, about an eternal existance and accountability to a higher being. Should I be wrong, I'll take my place along side all the rest into nothingness. Should you be wrong, you will take your place along side all the rest into eternal conscience separation from God for having been given an opportunity for eternal life with God and refused it. I would say lick your boot now, rather than try a quench the unquencable thirst later.
What's ironic is Christians right or wrong have nothing to lose... non-Christians on the otherhand, should the Bible be right, has everything to lose with no second chance to gain it. It is appointed unto man to die but once, than comes judgment!
Hey man, it's your soul, your existance, your eternity, and in the end YOUR CHOICE will leave you without excuse. You are a man of strong faith for it takes more faith to believe in nothing than it does in a creator and in an eternal existance.
Ah the ol' Pascal's Wager excuse. Tell us, Muntz, why you are not a Muslim or a Hindu? There are thousands of religions (and numerous Christian denominations) to choose from (or - as is most often the case - indoctrinated into at childhood) - why your flavour of Christianity? You can't all be right... The simple fact is, you're an atheist with respect to Hinduism, and some of us happen to take it one superbeing further. It requires no faith at all to simply not be convinced by any of the supernatural stories that are out there, or the flaky 'evidence' purported. It's no certainty there isn't a god but if she did exist, and there is a hell for unbelievers, she certainly wouldn't be benevolent as claimed or indeed worthy of following - for condemning atheists for exercising their god-given reasoning faculties and for condemning thousands of other religions' followers of not following her particular brand? No thanks.
(continued...) So why Christianity anyway? Faith? Faith is such a poor virtue - when, there are so many wrongs and only one right. It's not an either-or, it's a complete lottery! So I have a better wager for you... Maybe there is a loving god or gods, in which case it/they might be pleased atheists aren't wasting years of their life worshipping and are instead making fuller use of their short lives, bettering the only world they know to exist - for themselves, their neighbours and their descendants. When you put your trust and faith for your life in the hands of superbeings, you will be sorely disappointed.
Thanks for replying to Muntz in my stead, Darren. I get tired of repeatedly explaining to people who don't want to listen that atheism isn't a faith, but a conclusion based on the currently available evidence. It's equally tiresome (for the same reason) to repeatedly explain all the flaws in a hoary old chestnut like Pascal's Wager.
Simpler terms perhaps you can understand: I didn't conclude atheism is a 'faith', I said you had faith! Understand the difference? You drew a conclusion ‘based on faith’ in the information or so called empirical evidence you have. What is the out dated hoary evidence you have enough ‘faith’ in to jeopardize your soul?
Pascal's Wager may seem odd or ancient in it’s context to you now, but should you be wrong and you are, it won’t be ‘hoary’ then.
Peter Stoner wrote the book called Science Speaks and was first published in 1958.
Peter Stoner was chairman of the mathematics and astronomy departments at Pasadena City College until 1953 when he moved to Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California. There he served as chairman of the science division. At the time he wrote this book, he was professor emeritus of science at Westmont.
Over a quarter of all the verses in the Bible contain a prediction about the future. Altogether, 737 separate forecasts are made, from some onl
Cont..737 separate forecasts are made, from some only mentioned once, to others mentioned hundreds of times.
Of these, 594 (over 80%) have already come true. Since those that have not yet been fulfilled, are all concerned with the end of the world, which obviously has not happened yet, the Bible has actually achieved 100% accuracy. All that could have taken place already has done so, which should be ample grounds for confidence that the rest will also be fulfilled.
Peter Stoner's Calculations of Probabilities Regarding Messianic Prophecy
Professor Peter W. Stoner who authored “Science Speaks” stated that the probability of just eight prophecies being fulfilled in one person is 1 in 1017power i.e. 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000). The eight prophecies used in the calculation were:
Cont...
1. The Messiah is to be born in Bethlehem (Predicted in Old Testament - Micah 5:2; fulfilled in New Testament - Matt. 2:1-7; John 7:42; Luke 2:47).
2. The Messiah is to be preceded by a Messenger (Predicted OT - Isaiah 40:3; Malachi 3:1; fulfilled NT - in Matthew 3:1-3; 11:10; John 1:23; Luke 1:17).
3. The Messiah is to enter Jerusalem on a donkey (OT - Zechariah 9:9; fulfilled NT - in Luke 35-37; Matthew 21:6-11).
4. The Messiah is to be betrayed by a friend (OT - Psalms 41:9; 55:12-14; fulfilled NT - in Matthew 10:4; 26:49-50; John 13:21).
5. The Messiah is to be sold for 30 pieces of silver (OT - Zechariah 11:12; fulfilled NT - in Matthew 26:15; 27:3).
6. The money for which Messiah is sold is to be thrown “to the potter” in God’s house (OT - Zechariah 11:13; fulfilled NT - in Matthew 27:5-7).
7. The Messiah will be silent before His accusers (OT - Isaiah 53:7; fulfilled NT - in Matthew 27:12).
8. The Messiah is to be executed by crucifixion as a thief
Cont...8. The Messiah is to be executed by crucifixion as a thief (OT - Psalm 22:16; Zechariah 12:10; Isaiah 53:5,12; fulfilled NT - in Luke 23:33; John 20:25; Matthew 27:38; Mark 15:27,28).
Note: One of the most remarkable Messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures is the one that precisely states that the Messiah will die by crucifixion. It is found in Psalm 22 where David prophesied the Messiah would die by having His hands and feet pierced (Psalm 22:16). That prophecy was written 2,000 years before Jesus was born. What makes this significant is that when it was written, the Jewish method of execution was by stoning.
When Jesus was killed, the Jews still used stoning as their method of execution, but they had lost the power to implement the death penalty by stoning due to Roman occupation. That is why they were forced to take Jesus to Pilate, the Roman governor, and that's how Jesus ended up being crucified, in fulfillment of David's prophecy.
The bottom line is that
Muntz, the bottom line is that there's no actual evidence that any of those things ever happened. When it comes to the other umpteen-thousand predictions, they have simply been made to fit actual events. They work a lot John Edwards' talking to the dead.
What I'm wondering is how that Pascal's wager really works. It seems to me that if your reasoning for believing in God is "What if I don't and I'm wrong? then you don't really believe. You're just hedging your bet, and if there really is an omnipotent god, he/she/it will be able to see right through your false faith.
Hello D. Muntz. Nice pun name, by the way (Demons?). There are more than a few ways to define "faith." The first one dictionary .com mentions is having confidence or trust in a person or thing. That comes close to how I would use it. I have confidence, not in atheism, but in the method of scientific naturalism from which I drew a conclusion about atheism. The second definition in the dictionary is that faith is belief not based on proof (though I would substitute "the preponderance of sustantive evidence" for "proof"). This is the one most people (and most theists) use and it doesn't apply to how I think. Thus "faith" is a misleading word here and I reject it. "Confidence" (as the word is used in statistics) is more accurate.
Now, as to your 80% fulfilled prophecies... Just out of curiousity, how many of them are NOT ex post facto (IE: written about AFTER the prophesied event had already taken place)?
(continued) Not many, I'll warrant. I'm not up on scripture but I do seem to recall one though; that the Messiah would return and reveal himself within a generation of the refounding of Israel. Well, Israel was born again in 1948; a generation is about 30 years, so Jesus must have returned circa 1978. I was around but I guess I wasn't paying attention. I seem to have missed it.
So what other prophecies have been fulfilled between 4th century CE (when the NT bible was canonized) and today? Did they do anybody any good in advance> I can think of a lot of false predictions of the end of the world made by Dominionists and others of their ilk but so far their predicted end dates have come and gone, leaving them with egg on their faces. Their "faith" is rarely affected though. They ALWAYS find excuses ...after the fact.
No Hugh, you haven’t missed it, you simply don’t understand the Scriptures teaching on what a ‘generation’ is. Wiki is not a good authority on interpreting Scripture. The first and foremost rule in interpretation is ‘context’ of the writing, such as when, where, and to whom it is written?
The Bible speaks of different life spans for different generations – consider the following:
40 years - Numbers 32:13 "So the LORD'S anger burned against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the LORD was destroyed
Cont -70 years - Psalm 90:10 As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, or if due to strength, eighty years, yet their pride is but labor and sorrow; for soon it is gone and we fly away.
120 years - Genesis 6:3 Then the Lord said, "My spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
This prophecy is yet to be fulfilled and is directed is for a 'future' time when the average life span of man is yet unknown. We know it's not 40 years, it most like will fall in the 70 years or higher, which is were we are now.
Matthew 24:36-37 - But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Cont - 'I can think of a lot of false predictions of the end of the world made by Dominionists and others of their ilk but so far their predicted end dates have come and gone, leaving them with egg on their faces. Their "faith" is rarely affected though. They ALWAYS find excuses ...after the fact.' Fair and true statement – so can I. However genuine Christianity does not make claims to specific dates. You will not find this to be the case in a ‘faith’ where sound doctrine is taught.
Once again for emphesis - Matthew 24:36-37 - But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Cont - This is a good debate therefore excuse the muliple posts. It's difficult to make so many points with so few characters.
By your own admission you state you are ‘not up on Scripture’, therefore how can you fairly determine it to not be valid. Have you compared it with other religious texts, have you investigated its prophetic contents or archeological claims, have you weighed it against scientific evidence, BTW which happens to be harmonious. The million $ question is - why would someone of any intelligence make a decision for their life without due diligence to investigate all claims and theories that may have grave consequences and seal their fate for all eternity? That doesn’t sound responsible, sensible or logical because what we believe very often affects what others will ultimately embrace, including our loved ones.
Cont - For a better understanding of what a generation is, consider this. “And He told them a parable. Behold the fig tree and all the trees. As soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. Even so, you too when you see these things happening, recognize that the Kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.”
Now this is simply an obvious truth. If you see leaves, you know summer is coming. Leaves means it’s spring. And then fruit comes in summer. That’s it. That’s all there is here, folks. Behold the fig tree and all the trees. And fig trees, by the way, were common in Israel and often used for spiritual analogies. Now let’s move secondly to a specific application. What’s the point of this simple analogy? ...
Cont -Here it is, verse 31, “Even so, you also, or you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that the Kingdom of God is near.” Hey, do you see it yet? But the question is who is “you” here? When you see these things happen. Well it has to be the people who see these things happen. And then we have to ask, what are these things? And that takes you back to verse 20 of luke, the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies which triggers the great Tribulation. The signs in the sun, the moon, the stars, on the earth, the roaring of the sea and the waves, the powers of the heavens shaken, people in dismay, perplexity, dying from fear and expectation of what is coming... when you see those things, you then jumps all the way to those people who are believers in Christ who belong to Christ who are Christ’s people living in the time when those signs take place.
Cont -The disciples are only representative of that future group of people yet to see all the prophesied events, meaning you believers, who are alive when you see all these things happen. So what generation is the Bible speaking to? Some would say it refers specifically to the time of the disciples. So Jesus is saying, this is all the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies which triggers the great Tribulation. The signs in the sun, the moon, the stars, on the earth, the roaring of the sea and the waves, the powers of the heavens shaken, people in dismay, perplexity, dying from fear and expectation of what is coming...when you see those things going to happen in your lifetime. These things did not all happen in that generation.
Another one that is very popular, popularized by Hal Lindsey in the book The Late Great Planet Earth and some other books that came from that one, it refers to the people who see the birth of the nation Israel...
And this is based on the fact that the fig tree is an allegorical picture of Israel, that Israel is the fig tree and if you see the fig tree bud, you’re seeing Israel becoming a nation. Matthew and Mark, both speak of the fig tree but Luke adds something. Luke says in verse 29, “Behold the fig tree and all the trees,” showing that this is not something limited to the fig tree (Israel’s birth of a nation) which then could be identified with Israel, this is just a general principle, true of a fig tree and true of all trees. It’s a general observation. It’s an analogy, not an allegory. And btw, when that viewpoint came out, that generation that was alive in 1948 would see the return of Christ, but that generation is gone. If the generation according to that book is 40 years, that all ended in ‘88. We’re twenty years passed that and the Lord hasn’t come, why because ‘all’ these things, the entire prophecy did not happen in that generation.
But it’s not really that complicated. Verse 32, “Truly I say to you, this generation....” What generation? “The generation that sees 'all' these things happen will not die until it’s all taken place.” Whoever is among the you who sees these things happen can know this, it’s going to happen soon in your life time. If you see the beginning, you’re going to be there for the end. If you’re alive and you see Jerusalem surrounded and you see...the devastating changes in the universe, you see those signs, you will see the Son of Man. Such obvious signs was given us.
If you see the leaves, you know summer is near. If you see the signs, that occur during the first 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation you know Christ is near.
One last point to be made of this this generation, it's talking about the people who have come to faith after the Rapture of the church during the time of the Tribulation, which is another topic.
Finally, you say you base your decisiion on scientific evidence. I have 10 points of scientific evidence to give you that proves the Bible and Science are in complete harmony and in fact shows which came first, the art of science or the Words of God that science merely atests to. It's rather long so I'll post later. Perhaps you'll take the time to seriously consider it's contents.
As to your question - 'Now, as to your 80% fulfilled prophecies... Just out of curiousity, how many of them are NOT ex post facto (IE: written about AFTER the prophesied event had already taken place)?' They have all been written about, however the fullfillment of prophecy does not need to be recorded solely in the New Testament to be credible. History and Archaeology also bear witness to prophecy.
Well Muntz, it's like this. My gypsy friend has just placed a curse on YOU and your nearest and dearest. DON'T take this curse lightly. This curse threatens your - and those closest to you - eternal well-being. Give me 10% of you weakly earnings and dedicate your life to serving my organisation - I'll see to it that the curse is removed. You've been warned. The choice is yours.
Sean - comments likes yours come only from those who are fearful. By your words It's obvious you have nothing to contribute to an intelligent debate - perhaps you have no knowledge or perhaps you are smply a child. Whatever the case I have added your name to a global Christian prayer list.
BTW Sean - I have asked God to bless you abundantly, with good health, wealth and happiness.
Hello Muntz. 40 years? 70 years? 120 years? It's awfully convenient for you to have the term "generation" be elastic enough to fill every possible situation, but you stretch it even further than that by redefining it. In terms of time, a generation is supposed to mean the average period between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring, NOT "the days of our life" or life-span. And, just in case you want to throw the example of Abraham and Sarah's 80+ years before conceiving at me, please note the dictionary uses the word "average" in the definition.
"Finally, you say you base your decisiion on scientific evidence. I have 10 points of scientific evidence to give you that proves the Bible and Science are in complete harmony"
About this: I can just as easily show you plenty of cases where the Bible is NOT in complete harmony with science, such as in the definition of the number Pi, or the lumping in of bats with birds or saying that rabbits chew cuds, etc., etc.
Fellow citizen you've picked your poison. No more wasting your time.
Blessings
Muntz, I assume the point of my comment went over your head - so I won't go into great detail. Of course, my comment was providing you with a comparative to your previous pascal's wager - a wager that I see as childish, flawed and disgusting.
"By your words It's obvious you have nothing to contribute to an intelligent debate - perhaps you have no knowledge or perhaps you are smply a child."
Because my comparative wager was pretty much the same as yours, I'll take your response and assume you were addressing yourself whilst looking in the mirror.
Sean, no your comments did not go over my head, it was simply a poor anology in comparison. The bottom line is, regardless of who came up with the 'wager' the real probability still remains 50/50 for 'nothingness or eternal life', there is no arguement.
Pi is not an issue and here's why:
1. Gravity: the earth, the Stars, and the moon are suspended in space. Job, the oldest book in the Bible, was written with scientific accuracy long before Galileo and Newton’s discovery of 1687: He (God) spreads out the Northern over empty space; He suspends the earth over nothing. Job 26:7...how did Job know this scientific truth before it was discovered?
2. Constellations: In 1610 a French Lawyer by the name of Fabri de Peiresc discovered and named Orion. The Pleiades, was discovered and given a name in the 19th c. But God had already named them long ago, listen to Job 38:31-33, Can thou bind the cluster of the Pleiades or loosen the bands of Orion? Notice it also describes them as being scattered (cluster) among the heavens. They weren’t discovered or named yet in historically, yet Job knew there names. How did he get that foreknowledge, a thousand years before?
cont...
... 3. Geodesy: The study of the shape of the earth. Copernicus discovered in 1475 that the earth was a sphere (round). Isaiah did not understand this principle or the depth of the knowledge in this passage when he recorded it, but none the less, it was written with accuracy. "He sits enthroned above the vault (circle) of the ‘sphere’, the original Hebrew word is ‘vault’ which means circle, or zenith. A circle is a sphere."
4. Meteorology: Study of the circulation of the atmosphere. In the 17th c. Galileo discovered how this principle worked. It’s not surprising that God had revealed this process to us around 935 B.C. through the written word in Ecclesiastes 1:6, ‘the wind blows to the south and turns to the north, the wind continues swirling along; and on it’s circular course the wind returns.’
Cont...
5. Hydrology: The study of water and it’s cycles on the earth. In the 1600’s science just began to understand the process by which the clouds are formed and water is evaporated, ground water is replenished, and the cycle of rain. The writers of Job and Isaiah recorded this concept as revealed by God, hundreds of years before. Job 26:8, He wraps up the water in His clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. Job 36:27-28, He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain from the mist; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind. Isaiah 55:10, ‘For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth.’ Ecclesiastes 1:7, ‘All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. The place the streams come from, there they return again.’ Imagine having no knowledge or understanding of this principal yet describing it with accuracy. Cont...
6. Matter: The substance made up of invisible particles. If you think science has an exclusive on this one, look at the written Word of God. Romans 1:20, For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen also Hebrews 11:13, By faith we understand the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen is not made out of what is visible.
7. Physiology: The study of the human body. In 1628 A.D. science discovered that man’s life was sustained by the blood and its flow in the circulatory system. Before this was realized, leeching was used as a medical practice. Look at what God revealed in Leviticus 17:11 around 1450-1410 B.C., The life of the flesh is in the blood. Long before it was discovered that human life was depended upon it's blood source...it was written! Cont...
8. Astronomy: For centuries, astronomers thought they could count the number of stars. Brahe, for ie. said there were 777, Kepler said is was 1,005, Hipparchus said 1,022, yet, Ptolemy concluded there was 1,056. Finally Galileo, came to the conclusion, that the stars could not be numbered. Had they only sought the Word of God, he would not have spent his time in pursuit of counting the uncountable. God revealed through the Prophet Jeremiah in 33:22, the host of heaven cannot be numbered. Jeremiah 31:37,say’s "if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth stretched out below, then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done." In 1638 John Wilkins declared the heavenly bodies are not the same and that the moon has no light of its own. Job 25:5 on the other hand said, ‘Behold even the moon has no brightness.’ Paul spoke of this in the NT, I Cor. 15:41, there is one glory of the sun, one glory of the moon, and one glory of the stars.
9. Isotropy: The study of the balance or equilibrium of the earth, resulting from equal pressure on all sides wasn’t discovered until 1959, almost two-thousand years after God revealed this knowledge. At that point, scientists realized the relation between the distribution of land and water. God revealed through Isaiah, 40:12 as early as 740-680 B.C., this truth. Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, and marked off the heavens by the span, and calculated the dust of the earth by the measure, and weighted the mountains in a balance, and the hills in a pair of scales. Psalms 104:5, reveals this, God established the earth upon its foundations, so that it will not totter forever and ever. What more does man need to know to believe what God says about this or any other subject including His Son Jesus Christ? Cont...
10. Psychology: Doctors of Psychology have just begun to realize the affect of laughter on depression, something God has always known and told us through his prophet. Proverbs 16:24, ‘pleasant words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.’ Proverbs 17:22, A joyful heart is good medicine, but a broken spirit dries up bones. Drs. of Psychology tell us that what we think of ourselves affects our behavior...is this a new though, was this Fraud's thought? No it was God's wisdom given to man and revealed though Solomon. Proverbs 23:7 "for as he (a man) thinks in his heart, so is he." Psychology searches for the answers to give men the peace of a sound mind, would they have searched the scriptures they would have found the answer. 2 Timothy 1:7 says a sound mind comes through God and Isaiah 26:3 says, when our mind is fixed on Him, He will keep our minds in perfect peace.
The true knowledge about Pi, simply has yet to be discoverd by man.
Hello Muntz. Rather than refute your claims one by one, I am simply going to compare our methods for assessing claims. For that, I don't need to be a bible scholar. I just need to know how to research the validity of them. Take your claim about astronomers thinking they could count the number of stars in the sky (but not as accurately as the divinely inspired prophet Jeremiah who said they are uncountable). You say Tycho Brahe said there were 777, Kepler 1005, Hipparchus 1022, etc. This is easy enough to check and what they actually were doing was cataloguing and listing stars; NOT claiming that that's all there were. I found these same incorrect assertions on a number of creationist sites. I suspect you copied this stuff from one of them.
(continued next message)
(continued) Another way to check the validity of your assertions is to look for scientific info on how many stars actually ARE naked eye visible. The Yale Bright Star Catalog lists the number of magnitude 6.5 (naked-eye visible) or brighter stars at 9110, though reason tells us that, assuming the distribution is even, only about half that number would be visible from the surface of the Earth since the planet partially blocks your view. Why didn't you check this either?
There's a huge difference in how we look at things. I look for evidence bearing on a problem and reach a conclusion based on as much of it as I can find. You start with a conclusion first and then look only for evidence that supports it. You downplay or ignore anything that doesn't fit your preconceptions. And you don't bother to check the accuracy of assertions that do. There is a reason why people speak of "blind faith." It really does lead to blindness.
I could not stop laughing,Does this mean I am sick.
If you really look into other religions, you'll find the same kind of support and agreement with science. It's been said that every myth has it's basis in fact. Basically, there will always be some elements of a religion's mythology that fit the real world. If that were not the case, only total whackos would believe it -- like Scientologists.
What makes the Christian mythology more true than the Mayan? What makes it more valid than the beliefs of a native American tribe? What makes it more valid than the ancient Greek mythology? The answer is simply that Christians conquered those other folks and killed their religion. Another answer is that as human understanding of the universe expands, religions adjust or die. You'll find that the beliefs of a 21st century Christian don't agree completely with those of a 1st century Christian (who being around closer to the time of Christ, you would think would have a better grasp). The 21st century Christian has a lot of "reasons" for this, but the bottom line is that they make changes every time something they believe is proven to be wrong -- just like all the end-of-the-world predicters do when it doesn't happen.
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