Charlie Sheen calls Alcoholics Anonymous ‘bootleg cult’ in rant; is he right? (videos)
Actor Charlie Sheen is stirring controversy and criticism after delivering an on air rant during an interview on the Alex Jones Show. During the on air radio rant, Sheen criticized the producer of his hit CBS television sitcom Two and a Half Men, but also made some negative references to Alcoholics Anonymous. Speaking of his sobriety and the group known for their infamous 12 step program and helping others take their alcohol addictions one day at a time; Sheen described AA as a “bootleg cult.” Is he right? You may be surprised to discover that Charlie Sheen isn’t alone in his assumption that Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult. Also, many drug and alcohol treatment centers have developed into cults, for example Synanon. So what about Alcoholics Anonymous?
Drugs and Cults: Connected?
Drugs and cults are often connected. Many cult leaders ranging from Charles Manson to Jim Jones were associated with drugs. Whether it was using mind altering drugs as a form of control or claiming to cure drug and alcohol addiction, cults and drugs have a long history. Many testimonies, often given by former cult members, usually involve some form of drug use. Either drugs were used by the group, by the group's leader, or the member joined the group to overcome an addiction.
Drugs, Cults and a Higher Power
Some cults use their 'special connection' to God as a lure to gain new members; proposing a cure for drug and alcohol addiction. There have been many allegations against various drug and alcohol rehabilitation centers indicating that the facility was not offering “therapy” but rather mind controlling techniques that likened the group to a cult. Many people who have attended Alcoholics Anonymous or have been sent to live in residential drug and alcohol rehabilitation facilities have left the experience asking if they were involved in a cult.
Is there one easy, definitive answer or is being in this type of group a different experience for everyone? Can one person join a group like A.A. and leave with a positive feeling and another leave as though they were spiritually and emotionally abused?
The problem may arise from the fact that 12 step programs such as Alcoholics Anonymous and other drug and alcohol treatment centers focus on one thing: mind control and behavioral techniques. As these groups are founded on the premise of altering your thoughts, mind set and behavior, it is inevitable that the association with cult like tendencies will be made. But does the fact that a group tries to change your mind set and behavior automatically equate it with being a cult?
One of the facets of Alcoholics Anonymous that takes it out of the secular realm and puts it under a sociological microscope is the emphasis on spirituality. Developed by Bill Wilson and Bob Smith (Bill W and Dr. Bob) in 1935, the 12 steps focus greatly on a human admitting their weaknesses and dependence upon God. Though the language of the original 12 steps is gender specific and refers to God as “Him;” Alcoholics Anonymous encourages individuals to believe in their own spirituality to overcome their addiction. What is clear, however, is that Alcoholics Anonymous never encourages people to rely on their own strength for sobriety as the underlying basis is the belief that your own strength was too weak to prevent you from becoming an addict in the first place.
Does recognizing a higher power and looking to one’s own personal god indicate a cult?
Most cults are based upon a leader and the group takes on the identity of that leader. This isn’t the case with Alcoholics Anonymous. Also, there is no conformity of religious ideas as everyone who attends A.A. has the freedom to choose their “higher power.” They also have the freedom to “relapse” walk away from the group, and return to meetings again. For these reasons, most sociologists and cult experts feel that Alcoholics Anonymous is not a cult; however it is important to realize that Alcoholics Anonymous is offering behavioral therapy in group form, therefore those who feel they are in a cult may notice similar tendencies. It’s also important to realize that many drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs have become cults, fitting more neatly into the characteristics and descriptions of a cult.
Cult like tendencies in Alcoholics Anonymous
It is also possible that many people who attend Alcoholics Anonymous may exhibit cult like tendencies. This is to say they may become obsessed with the group, the meetings and the support they feel while attending. It may appear to others that the alcoholic has “joined a cult” per say as they see many differences in the person working on their addiction. Those who are in treatment for alcoholism will have many noticeable changes. As someone leaves addiction and heads into a life of sobriety their dress may change, they will stop going to the places they once visited, their behaviors and routines change, they may begin to speak differently and their personality as a whole will change. This can be shocking to those who knew the person and they may feel that someone is changing “against their will” or being “brainwashed” and are becoming a different person.
Does Alcoholics Anonymous rob members of their individuality?
When determining whether or not a drug and alcohol treatment program is a cult it is a good idea to look at who the individual is following, whether they are being harmed by the group, and if the changes are resulting in negative behavior that robs the person of their individuality and freedom to make individual choices. The way an individual views the concept of a higher power will also greatly impact how they view Alcoholics Anonymous. Since, however, A.A. does not force anyone to change his or her personal beliefs about a “higher power” and since those who do not believe in a higher power are free to drop out of A.A. and find another method of obtaining sobriety, the program is not a cult.
You may see videos presenting both sides of this argument, including Charlie Sheen's rant where he refers to A.A. as a "bootleg cult" in the video player to the left.
You may find more information on Alcoholics Anonymous at their official website here: A.A. Online
Comments
Not a cult. You're free to leave and come back any time you want, with no penalty; believe or not believe in any of the steps. Some people (me for example) think the psychology and spirituality is a bunch of hooey. But it helped me stop drinking.
I disagree that it is not a cult. Many people in AA are deceived into thinking that if they leave, their sobriety will be fleeting. AA uses the most vulnerable time in an addict's life (the first days and weeks of sobriety after rock bottom) to implant beliefs about sobriety, higher powers, etc, that become self-fulfilling.
In other words it goes something like this: the average AA/12-step member feels that "drugs or alcohol would kill [him or her]," and also that "[he or she] cannot maintain [his or her] sobriety without 'the group.'" It is this type of sinister, if unintended, false belief system that keeps people coming back, NOT generally some sense of fellowship.
Many people do embrace the group and do their best to espouse the same ideals but only after being indoctrinated that they can not be sober without the group.
So the ability to leave, for many people in 12-step, is an illusion. They feel they have no choice, an irrational belief DIRECTLY from AA.
"you are free to leave and come back anytime you want".
Not true, especially if it is court ordered. In MANY instances people come out of AA MUCH WORSE OFF than when they went in, many times they end up dead...
"The A.A. failure rate ranges from 95% to 100%. Sometimes, the A.A. success rate is actually less than zero, which means that A.A. indoctrination is positively harmful to people, and prevents recovery. Some tests have shown that even receiving no treatment at all for alcoholism is much better than receiving A.A. treatment:
One of the most enthusiastic boosters of Alcoholics Anonymous, Professor George Vaillant of Harvard University, who is also a member of the Board of Trustees of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. (AAWS), showed by his own 8 years of testing of A.A. that A.A. was worse than useless — that it didn't help the alcoholics any more than no treatment at all, and it had the highest death rate of any treatment program tested — a death rate that Professor Vaillant himself described as "appalling". While trying to prove that A.A. treatment works, Professor Vaillant actually proved that A.A. kills. After 8 years of A.A. treatment, the score with Dr. Vaillant's first 100 alcoholic patients was: 5 sober, 29 dead, and 66 still drinking."
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-secrets.html
Some have quit by other ways but when The AA program is done right it works. The problem is you have to do it and keep doing it. Sobriety is not a destination it is a journey.
The other problem is nobody can tell someone they are an addict of any kind. They have to hit their bottom and give up. Look up the definition of "give up" .
Those who can't ; criticize.
Try it for 90 days, and if you don't like it, we'll gladly refund your misery.
Oh one more thing NOBODY at AA has ever asked us to give up all our money , move to South America and drink poison Koolaid.
It makes sense, though, that those who want to continue drinking would view it as invasive or a cult. Especially if someone was court ordered and had no personal desire to stop drinking.
There are rehab programs that are cults- and it's possible that an individual A.A. chapter could become a cult...if they were centered around one leader...but I agree with you...A.A. isn't a cult.
That's the bs that is hurled at A.A.'s critics, "You just want to keep drinking!" or "It's just a few bad apples!" Uhm, ok, so it's not a cult, that's a nasty word to you. It's a group think organization based on religion or pseudoscience and it barely helps anyone except for in their dreams. There HAS been COPIOUS!!!! amounts of research done on it's effectiveness. It doesn't work. There's a debate about the conclusions of the research, but the data doesn't lie, the templeton foundation people are involved etc... bad news.
It would also make sense that those in the cult do not see the forest for the trees, and of course would be in denial. AA does have a "leader", it is the Big Book and Bill Wilson.
One of your own arguments-
"One of the facets of Alcoholics Anonymous that takes it out of the secular realm and puts it under a sociological microscope is the emphasis on spirituality." This is textbook AA indoctrination.
"To get you to join, they will tell you that
"It's spiritual, not religious."
"It isn't a religion, it's just a fellowship of alcoholics who want to quit drinking."
"Alcoholics Anonymous is not a religious organization."
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Foreword, page xx.
"It isn't a religion, it's a self-help group — just a wonderful spiritual quit-drinking program."
"Alcoholics Anonymous requires no beliefs."
and then the switch..
"At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us."
The Big Book, 3rd & 4th editions, William G. Wilson, Into Action, page 77.
For much more on the "bait and switch technique" go here: (I am sure you know as a "cult examiner", the bait and switch is also a textbook cultism.
http://orange-papers.org/orange-bait-switch.html#real_purpose
I am free in AA to think, feel, and believe whatever I choose. I've found no difficulty remaining sober in AA as an athiest. Working the steps meant I had to change what I was doing, though, and what I was doing before AA was taking me straight to the grave by way of a living hell; so I was desperate and willing to change what I was doing. As for loss of individuality: the individual I was before AA needed to go. For that matter, by most definitions of "individuality", I am far more of an individual today than I was before AA. I am more grateful every day that I was desperate when I walked through the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous. I am still desperate and I am still sober. Nuf said.
Thank you for your post. Me too! 25 years last month of good, honest, true sobriety. I am my own person - totally - I'm a biker of the most ardent variety - and no, I'm not a club conformist! I come and go in AA as I please! I am totally free. I help anyone that asks for help. I never force AA upon anyone. Everyone is free to believe in their own concept of a higher power. Or not!! I have found life long friendships in AA, and I don't have to worry about being back stabbed.
I've met atheist AA members, most found it necessary to lie about their non-belief until they had enough time in the program so that the oldtimers wouldn't give them a hard time. I couldn't live the lie.
When I asked, "As an atheist, how can I work the program?" it was like I gave permission to every wannabe preacher in the rooms to try to bully me into belief.
An atheist can attend AA, but even most AA members would say he or she isn't a real AA member. AA requires belief in a "Higher Power". Praying, by definition, is communing with a god. In the beginning, that higher power can be anything you like, but that's the bait & switch, as you stick around you're supposed to realize that it was God.
“We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God.”
BB, pg 46
That's only one example, the Big Book and 12 & 12 are full of them. Sure, an atheist can attend AA, they can go to church, too. But what's the point?
Seems to me that "cults" tend to tell you how to think, act, and take your money and possessions.
I'm wondering what Charlie Sheen ever lost to AA? Certainly not money- AA is free, though most people will give $1, voluntarily, to pay for coffee at meetings.
On the other hand, Sheen's addictive behavior has cost him jobs, many thousands in money spent on drugs and prostitutes, and presumably his health at times. Clearly his mental health.
So which "cult" has Sheen signed up for? Looks like he's a member of the cult of personality, drugs and addiction.
And the last thing about cults is that you usually can't leave them easily.
With AA, you can walk out any time you want.
With Sheen's cult of addiction, seems like he's never been able to get very far from it before it "forces" him back.
I guess it is always an individual choice as to what "cult" you want to belong to.
And if Sheen is truly happy where he is- more power to him.
Denial is an amazing thing.
It's a cult by any definition. If you think the entire thing is not based on one person, you're wrong, it was Bill Wilson all the way and they talk about him like a prophet.
Ok great, let's see, where do I start. Every meeting someone tells the group they would have died or would be dead without AA, that if they didn't keep going to meetings they'd probably end up dead, or a jail or institution. That may be true for some, but it's mindnumbingly brainwashing. I could go on for chapters with large volumes of references but let's just use that one example, because it's enough to debunk your point. So, to say that people are free to leave any time is just not the point of what anyone is talking about here. It's just a way of saying something positive that has no meaning. I'm just trying to be clear about that because I'm sure you'll disagree.
No it's not a choice between cults, we're framing it as a choice between reason/science and stupidity/ignorance/dogma. The will literally never change the program. It's just not conceivable that it cannot improve.
There's science and reason to back up some of what AA does, just like there is science behind Transcendental Meditation. In TM they have proven it's just a cult and you can get the exact same benefits from just chilling out big time. They say all of the same stuff.
I submit you can take away all of the hocus pocus and structure and achieve the same goals.
I don't like Alcoholics Anonymous when they talk about being "powerless". Nobody is powerless. Everyone on this earth is amazing and EXTREMELY powerful. Feeling sorry for yourself and helping others feel sorry for themselves won't help you get better.
If you have problems with drinking find out what makes you start and don't do it. One thing that saved me a few times is dumping the whole bottle down the sink before I drank it.
Life is good. Don't waste it going to meetings with people obsessed about going to meetings. AA isn't the only way to stop drinking or using.
AA has helped, and is helping hundreds of thousands of people achieve sobriety and keep it. Imroving their lives and the lives of thier families. There are other ways to achieve sobriety and AA will encourage you to try them if you think thsat is best for you. If your own will-power worked for you- then great. Most alcoholics can't stop without help, and admitting that they are powerless is a key step.
If one can stop drinking on their own power-
He is not a real alcoholic. Real alcoholics can only be saved by the Grace of God.
"True alcoholics can only be saved by the grace of God!" There you go! I wouldn't be surprised if that' s a troll but I have heard that so many times in AA it's not funny! This kind of insanity passes for a respectable institution.
People say "Real alcoholics can only be saved by the Grace of God" and then claim it's not religious.
I was powerless when I WAS drinking: blackouts, stupid behavior, embarassing my family, I could go on and on But because of the amazing program of recovery in AA, and by not taking that first sucker drink, I am now POWERFUL to live a free life not chained to "the drink" .... I wouldn't change my life in AA for anything..I am a present,happy, sober mom and wife and friend... Before AA alcohol called the shots...believe what you want but 5 1/2 years away from daily drinks and blackouts and chaos is proof enough for me that this program works..AA is not my whole life, but it gave me my life back, I'm not changing a thing...
To be a cult, you would need a leader- right? AA has no leader(s) per se- only service positions (mostly voluntary). The 12 steps are "suggested" steps for recovery. If you insist on being an agnosic / athiest, no one is going to convert you.
Charlie Sheen is in denile and, if he's "lucky", he'll hit a bottom that will force him to clean up. If not, he'll be dead in a few years time... And yet, no matter what negative things he says about AA, he would be welcomed back. "Our primarly purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety". Keep it simple, One day at a time.
You don't understand, Bill W. IS AA. He orchestrated the entire thing personally. He IS worshipped like a prophet. He thought himself one. He was channelling a 15th century monk when he wrote the 12 and 12. People thought he was magic dude, he 13th stepped with many helpless young women.
And no pussy-footing around, you can get out of the cult definition in your mind by comparing yourself to other cults, but it's just another word to mean pathological organization, which AA demonstrably is. Yes a pathogenic virus that drives people INSANE!!!! FOREVER!!!!!
Do you think A.A. should respond to his comments?
No! Never!!
I doubt that "AA" would ever respond to anyone's comments as one of the 12 Traditions is that "AA has no opinion on outside issues" and (unless I missed something) Charlie Sheen's opinions about his former producer, the Pope, and/or AA have nothing to do with the only program of recovery with a 75-year history of success. Peace
Ps: In a cult, different kinds of people come in the door and end up looking like cookie cutter automatons, behaving the same way.
In AA, it's just the opposite.
They cannot "respond" to these comments, and sure as hell they won't sue him for libel/slander. It's true. Everything he said about AA is the truth. Keep reading orange and you will get it. Perhaps write him a letter Charisse- I would be interested to see it posted on his site. He posts all the letters.
www.orange-papers.org
Click on his name and that is his email addy. He is not anonymous, but if you read, you will se who he is.
Aa saved my life. Only an alcoholic can truly understand Aa.
A cult -- get real! You are not required to do or believe or pay anything! Just try another way of life. Your article is from an uniformed outsider or maybe from someone who tried Aa and couldn't stay sober.
Hi John,
The article is discussing Charlie Sheen's recent comments on the Alex Jones radio show (you may hear his comments about Alcoholics Anonymous in the videos). The article never states that A.A. is a cult, in fact it states the opposite.
It was Charlie Sheen (Two and a Half Men) who said Alcoholics Anonymous was a cult with a 5% success rate. He also said he has a 100% success rate staying sober and just conquered his alcoholism through the power of his mind.
Alcoholics Anonymous has done a great deal of good for human beings. But, like anything else including some Churches, it has it's flaws. I'll explain what they are...
On one of the steps it says God will remove all of these defects of character. That is false, the only time that would happen is when you die or enter the Kingdom Of Heaven. You will have character defects every day, some will go away and come right back, that's life. Unless God changes his way of doing business, they will not be removed, but you do learn solutions to deal with them.
Also, the program contradicts itself, usually they close with The Lord's Prayer. Where does this prayer come from, The Holy Bible. So, in essence, your confusing people when you do that and suggest they can make up their own higher power then close the meeting with the prayer which is rather insane.
The comment about my Lord's Church is the same, they all are teaching something different and their is not perfection in the Church. If you look long enough, you will find fault, but God will never expect us to get it perfectly right, so, you choose how to intrerpret the scriptures, rarely will it be a problem.
I did not meet Christ thru scripture, but in spirit, that's how I know him. Aa has done a world of good for me, but be careful, wherever you see anyone trying to find God again, BELIEVE the devil will be their to divide it. You start to learn the devils schemes, then you can start to enjoy life, simple as that.
Again, usually if you end up in AA, your life was or is in danger. You take what you need and you leave the rest. In every aspect of life, division will come up, you do whats best for you and your journey with YOUR creator. People can be very cruel in Church and in AA, you have to realize that they do not know your circumstances and no two humans are the same. Just get back on track with God Almighty, and that is what AA is trying to do. I did not mention how thankful I was for Church and AA above, they rescued me from utter hell(apart from God), they taught me that all God wants is progress, not perfection which led my all or nothing butt there to begin with.
Thank you Lord, just like traffic parts for an ambulance, one day the clouds will part for you, take us home big man, take us home.
True. I don't dress like "James Dean if he were a pimp" anymore. Neither do I make fun of people who dress like "squares". I don't hang out at bars unless I'm watching a band or engaging in karaoke or something. I don't hang out at places where the primamary purpose of gathering is to smoke marijuana, sniff coke, do heroin, etc. I try not to swear as I overall try not to be the arrogant person who antagonized everyone - family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. I avoid feeling sorry for myself concerning my medical problems or loss of loved ones and when my wife died prematurely, I found the people in AA to be a useful distraction from my constant brooding. I really don't know what the detractors want from us people in the program. The overdoses, those who die in their cars, those who die from liver failure or who commit suicide under the influence - they are the ones who have kept me going back for years and years. I hesitate to express any sympathy or lack of sympathy for them because, either way, my reaction to them will be seen as "cult-like". But, why shouldn't I keep going back? It's my life to live, not Charlie Sheen's life.
I would not go as far as to say all of aa is a cult, but there are cultists in aa. Go to enough aa meetings and you will notice that it seems like all the hardcore aa members share a brain. They all repeat the same stupid slogans, and they all act like their holy book the "Big book of alcoholics anonymous" is truely God inspired. Their founder, bill wilson was a cultist. He was from "the oxford group" wich blended new age, christian and occult beliefs. And that is the nut that those a.a.s' are taking their "spirituality" lessons from. So its not entirely a cult, but it does brainwash people and some become a.a. cultists. Oh yeah... and aa has a 5% success rate. Look it up
Charlie is correct. AA is a cult.
I would suggest that anyone with doubts go to this site and begin studying. It was composed by a Portlander:
www.orange-papers.org
I would urge you Charisse to go there and read. It is an enormous amount of referenced information, and is probably one of the most comprehensive sites on the web regarding AA.
"The A.A. failure rate ranges from 95% to 100%. Sometimes, the A.A. success rate is actually less than zero, which means that A.A. indoctrination is positively harmful to people, and prevents recovery. Some tests have shown that even receiving no treatment at all for alcoholism is much better than receiving A.A. treatment:"
also consider:
"The A.A. religion pushes a concept of God that is worse than medieval.
According to A.A., God is a fascist dictator, an authoritarian, vindictive Old-Testament-style patriarchal God Who will kill you with a painful slow death by alcoholism if you don't believe in Him, and surrender to Him, and constantly confess your sins to Him, and grovel before Him, and Seek and Do His Will every day.
According to Bill Wilson, God uses "the lash of alcoholism" to drive people into the A.A. religion, where they will find endless "Serenity and Gratitude" while working as slaves of God."
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-secrets.html
One thing I've learned over my 25+ years of sobriety is that different things speak to different people differently. Not everyone responds the same. So rather than try to reason with someone that AA can help, I just tell them what happened to me: I sobered up in AA and then left for many years to attend a Christian church because I didn't feel my spiritual life was getting "fed". I found Jesus, studied the Bible feverishly and then when it disbanded, I never found another church nor did I go back to AA. Spent the next several years without practicing any recovery (yes, it takes practice), during which I slowly sank back into the dysfunctional thinking of my childhood years. Eventually went back to AA when my husband's drinking/drugging got so bad we were heading for divorce. I know today God guided us back to AA because He knew it spoke to us. I eventually found Al-Anon and today our lives are better than they've ever been. Yes, my thinking had to change and God helped it happen. I'm a better person for it. And I'm back at church again, too. :)
Consider the source making the statement. I been involved and have had friends and loved ones involved. It is not a cult. Atleast not the meetings I been too. Charlie is welcome to his opinion, however, it does not hold much weight seeing he how he runs his life.
AA is not a cult, as I can tell you from experience. It teaches you how to live a normal and happy life without alcohol or drugs. It does not demand that you worship or even believe in God. Anyway, it's helped me stop drinking.
But for those who disagree with me, I guess you'll be better off listening to Charlie Sheen's rants as he sniffs his next line and downs his next drink. That behavior, of course, is considered sane in Charlie Sheen's demented world -- but AA is insane because it helps people stop drinkign and using, right?
The problem is with the definition of a cult. AA is based on pseudoscience and religion and harms people unnecessarily though it's methods. Just because it lets atheists join and helped you doesn't excuse all of the bs that also happens. TM helps people and they say atheists can join but it's still a cult by anyone's definition, thankfully.
CHARLIE, your a frickin' idiot. You think your life is rough. Buddy, you better get your head out of your A$$. You're going from a hero to a zero in a heartbeat. You won't be remembered in about 2 years for anything. Get a life loser. Yea, loser. Were you born with a silver spoon shoved up your culo. Apparently. Get away from them whores buddy.
Partial kudos to Charlie Sheen for publicly resisting indoctrination
into a religious, bootleg cult.
Keep your commitment to stay clean.
DH
Alcoholics Anonymous and all 12 step programs have become "RELIGIOUS, BOOTLEG CULTS" in denial!
They are RELIGIOUS, BOOTLEG CULTS that tell you they are not RELIGIOUS, BOOTLEG CULTS!
It took me 20 years in to see it.
Imagine being up in a satellite looking down at 12 step programs with a real open mind,
I cant wait for the canned responses.
Why is it even a question? Are people calling the hospital a cult? Are people saying, "Hey, don't go to the hospital, I hear that's a cult!" No, that would be ridiculous. The hospital uses something amazing that A.A. has never tried before, science and evidence based medicine.
The best description of a cult I've come across is "a pathological social group built on provably wrong tenets" A.A. qualifies.
Yeah, apologize for the hell AA puts people though by comparing it with more serious cults. You have no idea what you're encouraging here. Orange papers has all of the evidence and data you need.
12 and 12 was partially written by Bill Wilson's spirit guide, a monk who lived in the 15th century by Boniface. This is seriously sick stuff and I suggest you reconsider your apologia.
Good Place to start research
http://www.orange-papers.org/
http://www.morerevealed.com/
The problem that I have with AA is the implication put forth at the meetings that AA is the only way to achive sobriety or "serinity".
Also, I beleieve that through a modified belief system the member is programmed for destructive behaviour shoud they leave the group.
both problems that would be eradicated if they applied the science we already know to it.
Funnier than a dri drunk on crack
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s09e14-bloody-mary
There are many methods to achieve abstinence, sobriety, or reduce the harm caused by substances. You can find them in the resource section at www.stinkinthinkin.com . AA is helpful for some and harmful for others. You can do whatever you want in AA, AA meetings can even be used as support for periods of abstinence in a HAMS harm reduction or other drinking managment program. There are dangers and backlash involved in any treatment option. Educate yourself and keep your options open.
WHOPS...
http://stinkin-thinkin.com/
AA is definitely a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism. AA takes advantage of vulnerable people for the purpose of religious indoctrination... I know because I was a member of the cult for 18 years. I was able to finally get sober when I left AA almost 5 years ago, and I can tell you that leaving AA's self-defeatism and self-doubt was one of the best things that I've ever done.
For years I watched people come and go... relapsing over and over while the same small group encouraged everyone to believe that there was only one way to achieve sobriety... The double speak and hypocrisy was horrendous. AA has a language of it's own... It truly is a secret society.
AA's traditions are an outline for secrecy and suppression of information. The Oprafied public has no idea what really goes on within the halls and culture of this twisted religion that claims not to be a religion.
My advise to everyone is stay away from AA.
AA and some of it's offshoots, such as OA, NA, etc., can be credited with helping addicts get free of their substance abuse. In my personal experience, one of the offshoots, FA (Food Addicts), is very cult-like. I participated for a year and a half. The hard-core FA members literally (and frequently) say, "I thought FA was a cult until I realized my brain NEEDED to be washed." FA has two lines (Ann & Cynthia lines); one very hardcore line where sponsors will drop you if you refuse to discontinue medications your REAL DOCTOR has prescribed; another line that is somewhat gentler & realizing of the fact that being a sponsor does not equal being a doctor. Nonetheless, FA members cannot work the steps with a sponsor; it must be done at an AWOL group setting and if you break your abstinence (including, but not limited to, licking a spoon or missing a meal!), you are out of the AWOL step work. An FA members' whole day, EVERY day, is controlled by FA - requirements include: going to 3 "committed" meetings each week; doing 1/2 hour of Quiet Time every morning; making a 15-minute phone call to your sponsor at a specific time (to the minute) every morning; making 3 FA phone calls every day (leaving a message doesn't count!); reading 2 pages of the AA Big Book every night; going to the monthly Intergroup meeting; and more. You CANNOT EVEN SPEAK at a meeting until you have 90 days (maybe 60?) of perfect abstinence. Hence, the FA program, in my experienced opinion, is very cult-like.
My husband (we are separated) got involved with the FA people. He did loose alot of weight, but its what they have convinced him to do that is very dangerous. He was diagnosed as bipolar II over a year ago. He has been bipolar for a long time before this, but his bipolar condition got completely out of control. He was committed at one time due to his instability and the commitment was by the court due to his attack on a social worker. I had to get protection from him for threatening my life. The FA people told him he didn't need medication; that it was the food he was eating causing his problems. So, he quit counseling and stopped taking his meds. Since he joined up with these people, he no longer feels he needs to earn a living; at least a normal living. They have convinced him to devote his time to them. He has done a "speaker" cd about his supposed experiences which includes a bunch of malarchy that is totally untrue. At this point in time, he's a middle aged bum living with his mother pretending to have a disability that really amounts to nothing more then some muscle aches probably brought on from sitting in a chair at a computer all day long playing World of Warcraft and looking at gay porn. I wouldn't call him a role model.
This is an interesting discussion. It seems to boil down to -
1. Those that are in AA claim that it is not a cult. With no references to ANY additional sources of information.
2. Those that have previously been in AA and done a significant amount of research about the true history and efficacy of AA believe it is a cult. And they provide additional sources of information.
So, the questions become - " Who do you believe? Someone who is in the accused cult, that says it is not a cult? Or, a person who has left the cult and done research to create an informed perspective from both sides of the issue?"
Seems pretty obvious to me. I know which one I'd want on my side in a court case.
Just sayin...
There's an old saying... Well, I heard it a long time ago. How do you know something is a cult? Because it looks like one.
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