Rifqa Bary... Faleh Hassan Almaleki... Luqman Ameen Abdullah. One thing I keep reading in the coverage of all these stories and others is, "CAIR, the unindicted co-conspirator in a terror funding case." Ominous quotes from CAIR founder Omar Ahmed, and current Communications Director Ibrahim Hooper pepper the Internet. So I thought... what is an unindicted co-conspirator?
unindicted co-conspirator:
-n. A person or entity that is alleged to have engaged in conspiracy, but who is not charged.
Weird... It doesn't even mean that they were tried and let off. It means that they were never even charged. So, if I allege that Barry Obama engaged in a conspiracy with underground lizard people to use satellites to beam subliminal messages directly into your brain then I can say, "President Obama, the unindicted co-conspirator in the Reptilian orbital mind-control lasers case." Maybe there has to actually be an indictment before I can call it a "case" but I think you see my meaning. In the age of the War on Terror, when Muslims can disappear into off shore prisons without due process, the fact that CAIR was not even charged says volumes about the evidence against them to me. But I don't know.
A book was recently published titled, "Muslim Mafia" by former federal counter-terrorism agent P. David Gaubatz. The author's son, Christ Gaubatz infiltrated the national headquarters of CAIR pretending to be a convert to Islam. The reports flaunt his hundreds of boxes and thousands of pages of evidence that CAIR is conducting a secret Jihad to Islamize America, and they make their allegations, but they play their cards very close the vest. They probably are trying to wet people's appetite enough to actually read the book, which I will. So, expect that book review at some point. But it seems like they're basic charge is that CAIR is in Washington trying to influence public policy, which is exactly what every civil rights organization and every lobbying group is there to do. But I don't know.
I'm not a shill for CAIR. I've read the public relations and I've read the propaganda and frankly I don't know what to think about them. I've been critical of CAIR in the past. For example, there was a case were a Muslim girl applied for a job at Abercrombie and Fitch and was not hired on the grounds that she would not remove her hijab. CAIR jumped on that case to defend her right to wear her hijab. But I felt pretty strongly that Abercrombie and Fitch was in the right. It's simple property rights. Your rights end where my property begins. If you don't like it, you can get off my property, which is exactly what this girl should have done. But I am impressed that CAIR also works with non-Muslims. In a recent case a Sikh cab driver was assaulted by a passenger and CAIR supported him. Philosophically I oppose hate crime legislation because victims of all demographics deserve equal justice, but I'll grant that CAIR's willingness to defend non-Muslims is principled.
My impression of CAIR has always been that they are the Muslim version of the Anti Defamation League. I am as skeptical of organizations that work closely with the government as I am skeptical of the government itself. It has always seemed to me that special interest groups are fundamentally designed to aim the guns of government at their enemies and utilize legislative intimidation against their detractors. But I'll admit they do some good. Again, I just don't know.
So, I thought what better way to get the scoop than to visit my own local chapter, CAIR-SFBA.
It turns out that the San Francisco Bay Area chapter of CAIR is the first in the Nation, founded the same year as the Headquarters in D.C. Their 15th annual fundraising dinner is coming up. What better way to know what an organization is about than to see what they're pitching to their donors? So, I bought a ticket. I know the Crusaders will say that now I'm giving money to an unidicted co-conspirator, but I'll be bringing my keen nose for the purges of bovine. If anyone would like to join me, let me know and we'll coordinate, and certainly if you have any questions you'd like me to ask leave them in the comment's section.
Here are the details:
- What: CAIR-SFBA's 15th Annual Fundraising Banquet
- Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009
- Time: 5:00pm to 9:00pm
- Where: The Fremont Marriott, 46100 Landing Parkway, Fremont CA
- Theme: “A New Era of Hope: Our Role, Our Future.”
- Tickets: Call 408.986.9874 or order online.
$35.00 per Adult ($50.00 after November 8th)
$15.00 per Child (Ages 0-12 years)
$325.00 per Table (10 seats) - Speakers: Professor David Cole, Dr. Jack Shaheen and Dr. Mohammed Rajabally.
Dr. Jack Shaheen is Professor Emeritus of Mass Communication at Southern Illinois University, and consultant on Middle East affairs for CBS News. He studies portrayals of Arabs and Islam in American media, and his presentations contend that stereotypes do not exist in a vacuum, that hurtful caricatures of Asians, blacks, Latinos and others, impact innocents.
David D. Cole is an American law professor at the Georgetown University Law Center who publishes academic articles on various legal topics including civil rights, criminal justice, constitutional law. His main areas of expertise are First Amendment law, criminal procedure and law relating to United States federal courts and lectures on related topics including U.S. drugs policy, the U.S. War on Terror, and capital punishment.
Dr. Mohammad Rajabally is a long time community activist, ISNA member and project leader for NISA. Dr. Rajabally has industry specific experience as a Board Member of the Tri-Cities Homeless Coalition and Human Relations Commissioner for the City of Fremont. He is also the Vice President of the Islamic Society of East Bay in Fremont, the largest Mosque in the Tri-City Area. He and his wife Dr. Fareeda own a family Dental practice in Fremont.
Comments
Interesting article. I'd have to say that I wholeheartedly agree if someone where to volunteer a few words of truth, like 'fnuck islamic extremism' and 'fnuck islamic deception'.
Keep up the good job. Enjoy your CAIR banquette. I'm sure it will be..., shall we say, "unforgettable"...
I have a distaste for CAIR. I get tired of them telling me that I should be offended over things and I get sick to death of them speaking "On behalf of the Muslim Community" only to end up looking like complete idiots for complaining about things that don't need to be complained about.
I posted my own grievance on LJ and FB so I'm sure you have seen it there.
A new Era of Hope my my sounds like who was his name? Oh Obama. You know Davi we can all live in peace if the muslims really want to. But as long we remain the infidels it will never happen will it?
Just like what happened at Fort Hood this past Thursday. So I'm having a very difficult time knowing the US once again got attacked by a terrorist. So don't tell me Islam is a religion of peace.
Leyla - Good point. That kinda bothers me actually. Like ISNA's recent conference, "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." I think they try to hard.
You know Leyla, we can all live in peace if America would just get their military off of Muslim land, and stop funding and arming all their puppet dictators
"Infidel" is from the Latin "in-fidelis" which is the 15th century was defined as, "a non-Christian, especially a Saracen." It's not Arabic, or even a good translation. "Kafir" is from the Arabic "Kufr" which means "to cover over". Kafir literally means "One who covers, or is covered" as in from the Truth.
Fort Hood was an attack on a military base. Terrorism by definition is an attack on a civilian target.
How can you possibly look at thousands of soldiers killings millions of civilians and think that the war is caused by a poor translation of an Arabic term?
Peace not Pacifism.
Just imagine yourself in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan where innocent women and children are dying daily as a result of US occupation. Think how we respond to 3,000 deaths on 911, or 13 at Fort Hood and multiply that by about 1,000. That might give you some idea what America has done. None of these deaths can ever be justified as "fighting terrorism," or "defending freedom" when it's your child, or your wife, or your mother who has been murdered.
Murder is murder regardless of who holds the gun. It is just as tragic when it happens to US citizens as foreign citizens.
Those who support the military and other terrorist organizations always forget that once you rationalize violence as an acceptable means of resolving differences, then you've legitimized the escalation of violence by all involved.
There was only one tragic death at Fort Hood. The death of the fetus inside the female officer who died. For that loss, I mourn.
Another disturbing fact is when we have people committing acts of violence quoting islamic scripture, or as in the case of the Fort Hood murders, yelling "[islamic] god is great!", "[islamic] god is great!" Religion of peace? If it really were... if it really were. When the koran and ahadith bestow so much violence upon the non-muslims, don't be surprised if the rest of us refuse to see the islamic cult as as a religion of peace. Far from it.
This is where it all started Saddam invaded Kuwait in 91. He gassed Kurd villages. I don't know about you but I see a problem with that. That's why America is over there to secure the region from terrorists. Terrorism was going on even before I was born. I know there is many good people in Iran who just want to be free. But their under a dictator. But if Americans leave the middle east it will cause a power vacuum. The Taliban will come back with a vengeance. Iraq had made a big turnaround since 91. I do hope soon once the Iraqi government can protect themselves without the help of the US the sooner the Americans can leave.
Since the Major who is a US citizen has failed to uphold and protect the Constitution- Also he attacked a military base killing 13 and wounding 38. Forget that he's muslim for a minute by this act he committed treason.
Leyla, you've drank the Kool-Aid haven't you?
Did you forget WHO put Saddam in power?
WHO gave him the gas to use against the Kurds?
WHO allowed it to happen with ZERO retalliation for more than two decades?
The US Government is wholly responsible for the monsters of Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.
Both were put into power and propped up by irresponsible and psychotically paranoid ideologies during the later stages of the "Cold" War.
America's chickens are coming home to roost.
Layla... at least we can both agree on Iran.
There is nothing decent or Islamic about the government there.
Terrorism.. it's so funny how that word can change hands and then be forgotten.
When I was a child I was terrified of the Irish, the IRA were blowing things up left and right and it was such a state of being that I was honestly and genuinely afraid of Irish. The first time I met an Irish man was in our church and when he spoke and said that he was Irish I screamed and cried and ran out of the church until my mother came and got me.
I was wrong for associating the attitudes of all Irish for the actions of a few.
Just like it is wrong today to associate the attitudes and feelings of 1.5 Billion people with the actions of a few hundred.
Statistics prove that per capita, Muslims as a group are far less violent than Caucasian Americans. (Breakdown on US crime statistics is not available by religion)
Saifullah- I don't have a answer for that but when Osama's group was fighting the Russians we assisted them. Thats what I heard aswell as the Kurds being gassed. Before you hang me out to dry I admit I was young during the 91 invasion of Kuwait. There is allot of things the US did wrong. But its expected for countries to make mistakes and to learn from those mistakes.
And I don't drink kool-aid. And lets leave Rev Wright out of it ok?
Leyla, it is not enough to learn from past mistakes. Justice, in Natural Law, holds that the victims of history must be made whole by their aggressors. The degree of restitutional justice must, in some part, be determined by the victim. And the victims of America's mistakes have never EVER asked America to build a government for them and install leaders for them.
But America has done far more than fund and arm Islamic militants in the past. America wrote their scholarship. The Jihadist ideology that we are at war with today is not indigenous to the Muslim world. It was drafted at the University of Nebraska and distributed throughout the Muslim world in the form of children’s text books. Text books still in use to this day.
America created this Frankenstein monster. And as so often happens, the monster has turned on the master.
I appreciate the discussion happening here. But the Banquet is this weekend and I haven't seen any feedback about questions people have for CAIR. It seems to me that you are the perfect people to ask such questions. Saifulah, a Muslim who is skeptical of CAIR. Leyla, an American who is skeptical of Muslims. You two personify exactly the people who's questions I'd like to bring to this banquet.
Hmm Davi you want me to come to the Cair dinner? Well... Are you sure thats a good idea? I value my life and I'm sure Saifullah does too.
So...ok bye!!!
I appreciate the discussion happening here. But the Banquet is this weekend and I haven't seen any feedback about questions people have for CAIR. It seems to me that you are the perfect people to ask such questions. Saifulah, a Muslim who is skeptical of CAIR. Leyla, an American who is skeptical of Muslims. You two personify exactly the people who's questions I'd like to bring to this banquet.
There's just no way I could come even if I wanted too. 1 I don't do very well on jets- I get air sick.
Leyla - I was actually asking if you had any questions that you'd like me to ask on your behalf. Which I said in the article. Do you really think you're life would be in danger in a room full of Muslims eating dinner? Like... do you imagine that Muslims just wild beasts that lash out at non Muslims randomly?
If you wanted to come I think that'd be interesting. But I much more interested in your questions. If anyone threatened you, I for one would stand in their way.
Questions. Lets see for one I do want Egypt to improve its government. When I was over there I saw people living out on the streets. Run down business's in shambles where they could be thriving business's. I knew zip about Islam. If the US gets Osama Bin Laden it will still continue these attacks.
Please mention the paragraphs below:
My Question- There's room for improvement on the Middle East and the U.S. So why can't we work together to improve our way of life for the better?
Something has to be done about Iran. The US can't help because we're are already in two wars. So that leaves the muslims. Once Iran's government is replaced I'm sure- I hope peace will return to the region.
Its silly to be pointing fingers at each other for past mistakes. We're all grown ups here lets push up our sleeves and get to work. Because the world will not fix itself- its up to the people who live on this great expanse of Earth- to help one another regardless of ones religion. -Cont-
There is enough death on this Earth as it is. Its time to stop these deaths right now. Every single person has a right to life. We don't have the right to take that life away. The KJV says each person is created in Gods image. So that person is special in there own way. The human being is the most advanced machine ever created as well being given total free will to choose there own religion.
Direct quote from a news article UK Telegraph
"Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the gunman who killed 13 at America's Fort Hood military base, once gave a lecture to other doctors in which he said non-believers should be beheaded and have boiling oil poured down their throats.
He also told colleagues at America's top military hospital that non-Muslims were infidels condemned to hell who should be set on fire."
This is why I'm leery of muslims. Peace will never happen when radicals are still out there causing havac. They must realize this is the wrong path.
I could say the same thing about Christians.
Christians who kidnap and rape and murder travellers in various countries across South America, Africa and Asia
Christians who practice genocide against other tribes in Sri Lanka.
Christians who forcibly enlist young men into the armies to fight other tribes in Africa.
Christians who burn crosses and to this day still have lynch mobs across the USA.
Christians who radicalize, stockpile weapons and enclave themselves on US soil.
Why is it that you can so easily see that these Christians are not representative of Christianity as a whole and yet will not provide the same latitude for Muslims?
Questions for CAIR:
When Muslim-American students are presented with non-Muslim religious options or instruction in school; why does CAIR seek to shut down the religious option or instruction altogether instead of requesting an "equal time" for Islamic instruction or options? I have done extensive study on this and the "Separation of Church and State" does not apply to Student sponsored initiatives; yet CAIR seeks to shut down these student or privately sponsored initiatives rather than empowering the Muslim community to create its own.
Shouldn't the function of CAIR as the Council of American Islamic Relations be to forge relationships between the Muslim community and the rest of the USA instead of just shattering other relationships?
Sometimes CAIR goes too far. Like taking up the lawsuit of a woman in Georgia ( I think) who VOLUNTARILY removed her hijab in court when asked by a judge. The Judge stated that if she had merely said it was a religious obligation he would have
The Judge would have allowed her to leave it on.
Too often I see CAIR get involved in fights that don't need to be fought wherein the Muslims in question voluntarily back down on religious issues and then come back later to fight or argue against it.
If there is no initial argument raised by the "victim" in question then how can CAIR be so sure that a crime was ever committed?
Many people make demands in ignorance and if the Muslim "victims" in question had only followed a prescribed company policy to request exception then they would not have had any problems at all.
Too often Muslims are demanding things in THEIR terms instead of working WITHIN the systems established.
Shouldn't CAIR be choosier in the fights it takes in order to preserve some sort of positive reputation? The way it sits now CAIR is dangerously close to being the boy who cried "wolf" on behalf of the Muslim-American community.
One issue in particular I posted in FB and LJ and I included correspondence with Ibrahim Hooper in which he gave what I consider to be very poor responses without actually addressing the issue that I brought up.
Comment in the FB presentation mirror my own disbelief.
As a Muslim-American I want to know that my child would have the ability to have Muslim instruction options within the law and I fear that with the counterbalance of measures that CAIR enacts that we will be loosing our religious rights as they push for more secularism than ever before.
Now schools fear the exercise of religious expression on campus grounds even though it is protected by the law.
Because even student-sponsored initiatives such as the National Day of Prayer or "Meet me at the Flagpole" are shot down by CAIR instead of CAIR creating a situation wherein the Muslim community could JOIN TOGETHER with the Christian community.
I feel that CAIR is causing more division and less cooperation between c
Example:
"The issue was not the permission slip itself, it was the fact that the school's teachers distributed them to all students. We did not object to the Bible classes or to the right of Christian students to attend Bible classes. Students are permitted to attend religious activities, but these activities should not be promoted by school officials.
Ibrahim"
My response:
"Salaam,
Be that as it may, I still feel a stronger and more lasting solution would have been to produce an alternative from the Muslim community which would also be distributed by the teachers to every student as a demand for Equal Time rather than No Time for anyone.
Do you see my point at all?"
Hooper's retort:
"The Muslim students should be able to have their own release time, but the teachers should not be involved."
Consider the logic in this.
If it happens at school or during school time HOW CAN TEACHERS NOT BE INVOLVED?
Who will hand out the permission slips if not the TEACHERS?
Therein lies my final question for CAIR:
So I ask again... has CAIR really got the civil rights and equal justice for all concept in mind and heart...or have they become litigious hit squads for Muslim-Americans?
FYI: When I was in Chicago I was close with CAIR-Chicago and frequently communicated with them. I had a lot of respect for the work they did.
A lot has changed in the last 3 years.
Saifullah I want to see proof of your claim- Your talking about the Klu Kluz Klan? Those are white supremacists and I have no part of that crazy group. Just because someone says their a christian doesn't mean they are.
But Christians do have a right to protect themselves- however we don't go out picking for a fight.
By the way Honest Christians who believe in the Bible are being called right wing extremists by Homeland Security. People who are pro-life and are against abortion are being labeled as right wing extremists. So what do you have to say about that? So this claim you have that Christians rape and murder- you might want to recheck your source. Christians are being targeted and killed as well so don't sell me this Christian rape and murder nonsense.
Explain this Fort Hood shooting? And don't sugar coat it. What this man did was wrong period.
There is a fine line between right and wrong and we have laws- for people who do not obey them they will be arrested and put
in jail. Muslims live in this country must follow the laws here. If muslims can't respect those laws and obey them hey no one is keeping you here are they? You live in the US right and you have the right to worship here. Just as everyone else does. All thanks to the founding of our fathers who gave us that right. Our US troops are fighting to keep the U.S safe from enemies which gives you the right to worship and vote and enjoy your life. You don't realize that do you? Your in the freest country in the world and this is how you act toward the U.S. If you don't like that your free to leave.
Saifullah - You've touched on my core concern. "has CAIR really got the civil rights and equal justice for all concept in mind and heart...or have they become litigious hit squads for Muslim-Americans?"
Leyla – I would love to sit and drink coffee with you and just talk it out until the dawn hours. Because you’ve opened so many roads for me I don’t even know how to begin.
You are making the exact same point Saifullah is making. You are saying white supremacists and Christians extremists don’t represent the norm of Christians. He is saying that jihadists and Muslim extremists don’t represent the norm of Muslims. And he is asking you to afford him the same benefit of the doubt that you are asking for. The only difference is that you are willing to say that they aren’t real Christians, and Muslims don’t have that luxury. We can only say what isn’t real Islam.
I’m going to break this up, because it’s so deep.
Leyla - re: self defense and picking fights
I believe in the non aggression principle. The initiation of violence is illegitimate and the use of violence in defense is legitimate.
Christians have a right to protect themselves. So do Muslims if violence is initiated against them. The US Government absolutely goes around initiating violence in the world.
This conflict pre dates 911. It goes back to 1924 when the Ottoman Empire was sliced up and subjugated under puppet tyrannies, and occupying armies. The Shah was a puppet. Saddam Hussein was a puppet. The Saudi Royals are puppets. There are 130 military bases on foreign soil and no war declared by congress. That is absolutely global aggression. Overthrowing these tyrannies and removing Western military is the primary goal stated by these jihadist movements.
I’m not defending their actions. I condemn any attack on civilians. But we must have a correct view of history in order to understand the present.
Leyla - re: rightwing extremists
Go and read a poem by pastor Martin Niemöller called “First them came.” When you legitimize the initiation of violence against one group you have implicitly legitimized the initiation of violence against every other group. Homeland Security will now be used against all Americans. Beginning with the devoutly religious of any tradition, and the liberty minded Americans because they are the greatest threat to tyranny. So they will be labeled extremists and terrorists. Why can’t you see the same propaganda being used against you is also being used against me? America created a monster in Middle East to fight the soviets and the monster came home. Now it’s created a police state at home to fight the monster. I’m not surprised when that police state is used to subjugate its own people. That’s the nature of the initiation of violence. It always always always escalates.
Leyla – re: Fort Hood
Maj. Hassan seems like a conflicted man who wanted to serve his country but could not morally support these wars, and he flipped out. Other soldiers have done this. I don’t see a covert strategy here. I’m not defending him. I’m just playing the Socratic gadfly and asking questions.
What he did was violent. The military is also violent. Morality doesn’t change based on costumes flags and badges. The only criterion I know for the legitimacy of violence is the non aggression principle. So the question is, who is the aggressor?
At the micro level these soldiers were unarmed, and so it is clear that he was the aggressor. But at the macro level they are part of an organized fighting force which is initiating violence around the world. So it is less clear… I really don’t know.
If you can imagine that I am a child, and explain it to me in the simplest of terms maybe you can help me understand.
Leyla – re: the line between right and wrong
We have a fundamental philosophic disagreement here. I do not see the law as the line between right and wrong. Morality is the line. In Hitler’s Germany killing Jews was legal, but not right. In Saddam’s Iraq gassing Kurds was legal, but not right. In Roosevelt’s America forcing Japanese into concentration camps was legal, but not right.
Americans, yourself included, cannot possibly obey the laws here. Thousands of pages of law are passed every year and it would take multiple life times to even read them.
The founding fathers didn’t give us rights, they acknowledged rights “Endowed by our Creator” and aimed at a government that would protect those natural rights. Today we have a government which violates these rights both at home and abroad. It is legal. But it is not right.
Leyla - US troops keep us safe
That is laughable. It contradicts every CIA intelligence report which state terrorism is a response to our foreign occupation. Believing that a band of illiterate shepherds with kalashnikoffs thousands of miles are a threat to you in a country with the largest military in the world is so ridiculous it must connote a strain of insanity. Osama bin Laden himself says his goal is to force America off the Arabian Peninsula, not to take over the world. US troops aren’t keeping you safe, they are stirring a hornet’s nest.
Let’s stay Socratic. You say we live in the freest country in the world… What does “free” mean? To me a free country is one in which the government does not initiate violence against its neighbors or its residents. The US Government fails miserably on both counts.
“Love it or leave it” is a cheap argument used by people who can’t find a leg to stand on. I was born here. I have as much right to be here as you.
Are you condoning murder Davi? That it was ok for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews? Are you out of your mind?! It is NOT legal to murder people. Those same soldiers you seem to laugh at gives you rights to pray 5 times a day in your mosque. Bet you didn't realize that.
This discussion is over, because we can argue about it until the cows come home or until I'm blue in the face which ever comes first. One of those soldiers that was killed was expecting but now since she was gunned down she will never be a mother.
Leyla - I suggest you take a deep breath and re read what I've said. Because you've got it exactly backwards. I said, "In Hitler’s Germany killing Jews was legal, but NOT right." My point is that sometimes what is legal is not moral. I'm not concerned with what is legal, I'm concerned with what is moral.
I said specifically that I was not defending Maj. Hassan. I was asking you to explain what moral criterion you use to determine when killing is justified and when it is murder. I use the non-aggression principle, defined below.
Further, soldiers don’t give rights. Costumes don’t give rights. Flags don’t give rights. GOD GIVES RIGHTS! People can protect rights, but not give them, and I don’t believe soldiers are protecting my rights or yours. They are in fact consistently violating the rights of mankind.
The loss of the child is a true tragedy. But we cannot have a conversation if you will not read, or attempt to understand what I’m saying.
Leyla... there is an inherent flaw in your argument.
You recognize that criminals who claim to be Christian are not acting on Christian morals.
However, you do not accept that criminals who are Muslim are not acting on Muslim morals.
Your core argument is based on a double-standard.
Every group that I was referring to claims to be Christian and every one of them claims to be doing the rape, murder and assault in the name of religion.
Ultraconservative extremism is equally dangerous no matter what religion it eliminates from.
Additionally, you are challenging my right to live in the USA. Sorry to dissapoint but Muslim-Americans are not all immigrants, in fact the immigrant Muslim-American population is a minority of the overall Muslim-American community.
My ancestors came to this country in 1658 as part of the French migration.
Yes, just like Davi I'm Caucasian.
Additionally Leyla, you seem to think that I have no respect for military or soldiers.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
My father served in the US Air Force from 1967 until 1973 then re-joined the US Air National Guard where he remained until retirement in 2004. He was highly decorated and served command positions in the first Gulf War and the War in Iraq under both Bushes.
My Mother also served throughout Vietnam and also re-joined the Air National Guard. Actually my parents met and married in 1970 while serving together.
I have a great deal of patriotism and pride in the fact that my family has been defending this nation since before it was formed.
I attempted to enlist multiple times, the last time was to serve in the Marine Corps as a combat photographer after I'd completed my degree.
Unfortunately I'm remained medically unfit for service from the age of 18 until beyond the age of 30 when I could no longer enlist.
What happened at Ft. Hood was tragic and disturbing.
Do some research into violence from soldiers following the Gulf War and the Iraq War.
There is a problem that my mother and I discuss frequently, that our military does a fantastic job of turning ordinary people into trained killers to win wars and suppress the enemy.
Unfortunately, they never de-program soldiers when the time comes.
Some people cannot handle the pressure, there are many incidents of violence by soldiers on and off bases and there have been recorded throughout the 20th century. The only reason this one is significant in the media is because the soldier is Muslim.
I'm willing to bet that you haven't even heard of the Marine Corpsman who was tried and convicted of brutally raping and beating a young Filipina nearly to death only to be given asylum in the US Embassy until he could be taken away. Never paid for his crime.
Both of you should be ashamed for being tainted by your Imams who twisted your minds into thinking that the Bible is corrupted and that Christians are bad. I heard it all so don't give me your sob stories that Islam is a religion of peace. When it says plainly in the Koran that suicide is OK that once a muslim or muslims takes out infidels in the name of Allah that he will go to paradise with 72 virgins. That's is why I'm upset- because muslims are being led into this sham like sheep to a slaughter. Read the KJV.
Jeezuz~! Lilly stop embarassing yourself! Your priest/politician/propagandi tells you something is in the Koran, which it’s not, and now you’re ready to slaughter 25% of the world population. Sicko!
Bible’s not corrupted… HA! Just tell me Jeezuz’s last words… come on… tell me.
Why don’t you go read the KJV! Or the Koran! Jeez! Read Winnie the Pooh or Charlotte’s Web, I don’t care! But for God’s sake Lilly… LEARN TO READ!
At least in this thread the Trolls are labeled for our convenience.
*ignores the troll*
Leyla, I have to take apart your comment piece by piece because you've got a lot of stuff going on.
"Both of you should be ashamed for being tainted by your Imams who twisted your minds into thinking that the Bible is corrupted and that Christians are bad."
I learned the Bible was corrupted LONG before I became Muslim. I learned it while studying the Bible in university on the road to becoming a preacher. When you study the Bible and understand all the changes and transitions it has undergone and even the criteria used in selecting the books for the Christian cannon it becomes disgusting. Ultimately the inaccuracy in the Bible is a major reason for my leaving Christianity.
Also, the KJV of the Bible (as any Biblical scholar should tell you) is the most inaccurate and flawed translation available. Entire sections are removed and/or added to suit King James' political agenda!
More accurate English translations are NRSV and New World.
I've read all of them and KJV thoroughl
Leyla, I have NO idea where you got this:
"When it says plainly in the Koran that suicide is OK that once a muslim or muslims takes out infidels in the name of Allah that he will go to paradise with 72 virgins."
Please tell me where it says this in the Qur'an.
I've never read it in any of my many readings of the Qur'an in any translation.
If you need help finding it you can try this website:
www . islamawakened . org
They have online Qur'an in many English translations.
Some are more accurate than others and the authors of the website have even given commentary on it as to which translations have problems.
I don't know where this 72 virgin thing came from since I can't find it in any authentic Hadith or in the Qur'an. I've looked for it to seal the arguments on both sides of the fence!
There are pure and chaste companions in paradise, but they are not sexual servants in any fashion and they are never numbered.
Besides, killing an innocent will excludes one from p
As I was trying to say, Killing an innocent excludes one from Paradise.
An innocent is ANYONE who is not taking up arms against you.
When Muhammad (SAWS) led his people into battle against the pagan tribes that were slaughtering the early Muslims, his command to the army was to only attack the soldiers. It was strictly prohibited to harm women, children, elderly, animals, trees, destroy houses or loot and pillage the towns.
This is all recorded in history, even outside of Islamic sources.
By the way, the Qur'an also tells us that Jews and Christians are "People of the Book" who were given some of the Law of God by his Prophets and as such we are to consider one another as brothers and sisters under One God.
Sorry it took so long but I read this last night so I didn't respond until I had something to go on.
Well someone is spreading false rumors then. I did read a book and read the 72 virgins was called folklore. But there is 5 verses that confirm what you said. The Jews took out God and Jesus's true name. Then the Jews translated the Hebrew version into Greek then it was translated into Latin and then English. Some time ago I was introduced to the Restored Scriptures. You should research this. This may indeed clear up this anti-semantic mess we're in.
And by the way who is this "troll"? Learn to read huh? Looks like you need to learn to spell.
How can people claim that islam is the true religion, when it allows horribly disparate interpretations of its most
basic scriptures? How can a religion, which claims to be peaceful, be founded by a brutal warrior, himself incapable
of resolving his conflicts with awe inspiring solutions that would amaze the entire world?
No. Instead of divinely brilliant acts, he resorted to what warriors of the time did best: bloodshed, violence, barbarism, misogyny.
That people of today's world will blindly follow such a revolting figure is a testament to how far the human race
still needs to improve. What a long road lies in front of us all. Still, we must continue the journey.
Habib that is exactly right. However I think Islam is a punishment for people who strayed away. Look how the bibles are today there is oh 50 different versions of the Bible.
This is a warning to all we have to be careful before straying away. Like now how the Christians are being sucked into the emergent church or the New age movement. Yes Oprah was a Christian now she's falling into the new age deal. But don't take my word for it. Research it yourselves.
Saifullah my question is what political agenda did King James have and what sections were removed?
I knew of the aprographa books and I discovered in the Restorative Scriptures that Acts had 29 chapters.
Also, the KJV of the Bible (as any Biblical scholar should tell you) is the most inaccurate and flawed translation available.)
Well so far No biblical scholar has ever told me that the KJV is flawed. No wonder I'm stuck on a unit from my home bible study course. Because I can't make heads or tails of this unit. cont
Called the Chaotic Kingdom stage- when Israel split into two kingdoms
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