CAIR's Engagement with the Muslim Youth 2009
Often rightwing pundits accuse Muslims of not only following a religion, but a political ideology. They claim that CAIR and similar organizations represent a covert conspiracy of radical Muslims who's only aim is to replace the American republic with a Saudi style tyranny. Further, the purveyors of the new McCarthyism claim that this is to be accomplished under the guise of civil rights. What irony! That the very weapon which will be used to destroy civil rights in America is civil rights itself! Or maybe it's all bollocks. Those anti-Muslim talking heads who peddle this tripe would be surprised to find that the target audience of CAIR's message are Muslims who's political ideology is disappointingly indistinguishable from the American mainstream.
On Sunday, November 15th, I attended the CAIR SFBA 15th Annual Fundrasing Banquet to form my own opinion about the organization. I posit that the best way to know the truth about an organization is to see what they are pitching to their donors. Any non-profit organization, which relies upon the contributions of the donors, is beholden to them, and thus accountable to them for the promises they make. This is the fundamental distinction between the private sector, which is voluntary, and the public sector, which is coercive. If CAIR can't persuade enough public support to raise the capital needed to fund their projects, they shut their doors. So what are they selling?
A table was set up before the entrance to the banquet hall displaying all the latest CAIR literature. The annual civil rights reports from the local and state chapter. Tshirts bearing the CAIR logo above the slogan, "if you don't vote, don't complain." Which I personally find divisive, almost offensive to those who choose not to vote out of principle. A whole series of Know Your Rights brochures catered to various scenarios. Perhaps the most striking thing, the last thing I'd expect to find handed out by a subversive anti-American group, pocket copies of the US constitution.
The banquet hall was reminiscent of fundraising dinners I've seen for political candidates. Bouquets of flowers. Literature from the organization at every table. Superfluous silverware no one really knows when to use. On the stage, a banner and podium for the speakers.
The dinner began with a recitation from the Quran:
If God had so Willed, He would have made you a single community, but He Willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you. So compete with one another in good works. To God is your return, and He will inform you of the truth of the matters in which you dispute. 5:48
and
God does not change the condition of a people until they change that which is in their hearts. 13:11
CAIR explained their three objectives, to promote justice, to empower American Muslims, and to enhance understanding. Each of the speakers seemed catered to these objectives.
Their first objective, promoting justice, was championed by guest speaker Dr. Mohammed Rajabally from the North American Islamic Shelter for the Abused (NISA), a battered women's shelter. This objective is pursued through CAIR's Know Your Rights workshops and civil rights Advocacy. Dr. Rajabally solicited donations with simple math. The average case CAIR takes costs $500, which may mean a referral to an attorney, or drafting a press release, or hosting sensitivity training. So, Dr. Rajabally simply asked the donors, how many cases do they want to fund? Clearly, this is one of the things donors are paying for, an organization to facilitate civil rights related cases.
The second objective, to empower American Muslims, was championed by keynote speaker Professor David Cole, a law professor at the Georgetown University Law Center who specializes in constitutional law, among other things. This objective is pursued through CAIR's youth leadership programs, and government relations work. Professor Cole's pitch was simple. Revisit the injustices of the Bush administration, demonstrate the inaction of congress and the courts to reign him in, and argue that is the people, and organizations like CAIR that places the necessary check on government. Although he praised Obama as some new leap foreword, he insisted that the work is not done, and CAIR should be supported to keep pressure on Obama.
The third objective, enhancing understanding, was championed by keynote speaker Dr. Jack Shaheen, professor emeritus of Mass Communication at Southern Illinois University, and author of Reel Bad Arabs. This objective is pursued through CAIR's media relations work and interfaith programs. Dr. Shaheen, both in his speech and his career, focused on the media's unrelenting portrayal of Arabs and Muslims as villains. He emphasized that this type of negative stereotyping, or type casting, has been necessary in every period of history where a specific group is demonized and made to feel less than human.
The theme, "A New Era of Hope," which sounds like either an Obama campaign slogan or an episode of Star Wars, was actually meant to draw attentions to CAIR's renewed focus on American Muslim Youth. This year 40 California Muslim Youth attended a four day conference in Sacramento where they learned the ropes of the political machine. They attended public speaking workshops, media relations training, mock legislative sessions and had the opportunity to meet with lobbyists and legislators to learn what it is that they do. This is what CAIR hopes to do more of moving foreword, facilitate Muslim youth in engaging the political machine.
I personally feel that outside the system activism yields a far greater return on investment than inside the system activism. Further, my view is that the political machine is inherently violent and immoral by design, while a Muslim should strive to be peaceful and virtuous. The political environment has such a corrupting influence on those engaged in it as to preclude people of high principle. This is politics in midstream. One who agrees to throw his hat in the political process rarely, if ever, has opportunity to call into question the true essence of politics. The political machine must ignore the fundamental premise at the root of their arguments, that the system itself is coercive. Muslims should be people who check their premises, and hold to their principles. Far from the allegations against CAIR, that they aim to "Islamisize" America, my concern is they may be far more successful at Americanizing Muslims.
Not all of my questions were answered, but I was invited to the 7th Annual Banquet of the Sacramento chapter, which is tonight. Inshaallah, more to come.
Comments
I think Muslims need to stick to our principles. But at the same time we do need some organizations like CAIR or ISNA to be involved in the politics of this country. You can't win the game if you don't play.
CAIR is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror-funding case and is an out-growth of the Muslim Brotherhood-Hamas infrastructure in America. The Muslim Brotherhood seeks an world under Islamic rule.
I think there's too much brandy in brandi
What is an unindicted co-conspirator?
unindicted co-conspirator:
-n. A person or entity that is alleged to have engaged in conspiracy, but who is not charged.
Weird... It doesn't even mean that they were tried and let off. It means that they were never even charged. So, if I allege that Barry Obama engaged in a conspiracy with underground lizard people to use satellites to beam subliminal messages directly into your brain then I can say, "President Obama, the unindicted co-conspirator in the Reptilian orbital mind-control lasers case." I think you see my meaning. In the age of the War on Terror, when Muslims can disappear into off shore prisons without due process, the fact that CAIR was not even charged says volumes about the evidence against them to me.
CAIR was started by former officials of Mousa Abu Marzook’s Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP) in America. When IAP was formed, Marzook was the head of Hamas. The purpose of IAP was to raise funds for Hamas. IAP was defined as the overt arm of the Muslim Brotherhood by federal prosecutors in court papers dated September 2007 (page 3. sec. 4a) that sought the remove of IAP's president from the U.S. for lying.
The other founder of IAP was Sami al-Arian who is a convicted terror supporter whom CAIR stands with to this day.
Islamonline, whose chairman is terror-supporter Yusef Qaradawi, reports that Sami Al-Arian also helped for the Islamic Society of North America.
Source?
Brandi, let me begin by stating that what is stated by federal prosecutors in court papers holds absolutely no weight with me as evidence of anything. The author rightly calls this this new McCarthyism. So, I approach your claim as any dispassionate observer. Let me see if I understand your logic. CAIR was founded by men who were previously members of IAP. IAP was formed by members of Hamas, and some federal document somewhere links the IAP with the Muslim Brotherhood. So, assuming that Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are evil (groups I'm unfamiliar with) that evil, through some metaphysical process, transfers to every one who ever associated with them, and every project any of them ever started? Is that about right? Similarly, the NRA was originally an outgrowth the KKK so we can assume any gun rights advocate hates black people yes? And the constitution was written by a slave owner, so we can assume that any patriot is pro slavery yes? Can you provide a bit more?
Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror funding trial documents.
Brandi, do you know where I can read those documents?
Brandi is an unindicted co-conspirator in the Internal Revenue Service terror-funding case which is an out-growth of the United States of America. The United States seeks a world under American rule.
Davi, I will get you the links later on today - have to go do something with family now.
CAIR and the Muslim American Society was described in a court brief UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs. SABRl BENKAHLA on page 58 as arms or founded by leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood:
...MAS was founded as the overt arm of the Muslim Brotherhood in America.
...Moreover, from its founding by Muslim Brotherhood leaders, CAIR conspired with other affiliates of the Muslin Brotherhood to support terrorists. See Government's Memorandum in Opposition to CAIR's Motion for Leave to File a Brief (re. Holy Land Foundation Hamas Terror Funding Case)
Proof that the conspirators agreed to use deception to conceal from the American public their connections to terrorists was introduced at both the Texas trial in 2007 and also at a Chicago trial the previous year. Untited States vs. Askqai-, el al.. No. 03-978 (N.D. 111.2006).
I tried to add a link to the court document but it is not allowed here.
Brandi..you can add a link, just add spaces or something between the words and the dots and slashes.
Have you researched the court case on Holy Land Foundation?
Do you know what the actual accusation and eventual conviction was about?
I suggest you look at www . freedomtogive . com
So you can see the other side of the story.
The crux of the issue here is WHAT the money was supposedly used for was to support terrorism
WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED:
In Bosnia and Ingushetia (where Serbian refugees ended up) there are lots of unexploded ordinance that kill children on a daily basis. HLF purchased anti-mine boots which were distributed to children aged 5 to 15.
These anti-mine boots were determined to be supportive of the "terrorist" groups because they are defined as military supplies.
Doesn't sound so terrible when you look at the realities does it?
Also Brandi, to demonize Hamas or Hezbollah would be the same as demonizing the Republican Party.
They are all Political parties which have good and bad sides. All of them have militant extremists in the midst which stir up violence. At the same time, all of them have established hospitals, schools and have created economic repair programs.
Don't forget.. the people of Palestine elected Hamas as their representatives and therefore Hamas is a legitimate ruling party. Since they had legitimate leadership in Palestine, the level of internal violence has almost completely been stopped and the economy of Palestine has somewhat stabilized. Which is remarkable since it is the only country surrounded by a wall and completely blockaded from import/export business.
Hezbollah as well has built far more hospitals than it has military installations and UN inspectors have validated that all the hospitals are truly just that with no soldiers or weapons within.
Neither saints nor devil
Brandi pays her taxes to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) which was started by Abraham Lincoln in 1862. The purpose of the IRS was to tax the population in order to to fund the War of Northern Aggression and successive acts of state terrorism throughout American history. The first Commissioner of Internal Revenue, George Boutwell, served on the military commission in the Department of War in 1862 and was a card carrying member of the Republican Party, who continue perpetuate aggressive American wars to this day.
Known members of this terrorist organization, the GOP, such as George W Bush who illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, George H.W. Bush who launched the Persian Gulf War and Ronald Regan who oversaw the Iran-Contra Scandal have never been brought to justice, and Brandi stands with them to this day.
Holy Land Foundation Trial Evidence Data Base
www.txnd.uscourts.gov/judges/hlf2/09-29-08
And note where CAIR Founder Omar Ahmad plots along with Nihad Awad and others to aid Hamas (What do they want to "hide"?)
"I mean, we don't really have available people whom we could dedicate for the work we want to hide..." (p6)
www.txnd.uscourts.gov/judges/hlf2/09-29-08/Philly Meeting 7.pdf
Thank Dan for those links. CAIR tried to fight the designation of co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror funding case but failed.
The trial brief is an eye opener as is the governments response to CAIR's legal request to be removed as a co-conspirator.
Saifullah said: "Also Brandi, to demonize Hamas or Hezbollah would be the same as demonizing the Republican Party."
The Republican party is NOT a designated a global terrorist organization and illegal to support. Your comparison is quite poor and gives you zero credibility. But it does show your Islamist bent.
Also. the freedom to give website is written from the Islamist perspective and blames the U.S. government for the actions of terror supporters who are in prison for a very long time.
"The Republican party is NOT a designated a global terrorist organization" ~ BRANDI
AHHAHHAHH!! Oh Man! lmao! ::knee slapping:: hoohoo.. oh it hurts.. lol!
Yes it is! I just said it was, and clearly you believe everything you read on the internet.
Hamas took the Gaza Strip by force in 2007 google: FACTBOX-Key players after Hamas's Gaza takeover
The federal government doesn't always inform the public whom they name as unindicted co-conspirators in cases but do so only when they feel it is in the public's best interest to know - such as the Islamist networks and infiltration in America. Islamists, like the Muslim Brotherhood, want the world to be ruled under Islamic law and they will lie, cheat, fight, befriend, mislead, pressure and do whatever they can to get to that end. Just do a quick study of their idealogy.
Davi, in one of your other posts you talked about an Islamic retreat and they brought up Sharia law - an integral part of Islamism. You said you needed to look into that more.
I will defend your right to practice spiritual Islam all day long but Islamism is a game changer. Go to www.aifdemocracy.org and get to know a fellow Muslim by the name Zuhdi Jasser. I'd like to see you write about his work.
Hamas took the Gaza Strip by force in 2007 google: FACTBOX-Key players after Hamas's Gaza takeover
The federal government doesn't always inform the public whom they name as unindicted co-conspirators in cases but do so only when they feel it is in the public's best interest to know - such as the Islamist networks and infiltration in America. Islamists, like the Muslim Brotherhood, want the world to be ruled under Islamic law and they will lie, cheat, fight, befriend, mislead, pressure and do whatever they can to get to that end. Just do a quick study of their idealogy.
Davi, in one of your other posts you talked about an Islamic retreat and they brought up Sharia law - an integral part of Islamism. You said you needed to look into that more.
I will defend your right to practice spiritual Islam all day long but Islamism is a game changer. Go to www.aifdemocracy.org and get to know a fellow Muslim by the name Zuhdi Jasser. I'd like to see you write about his work.
Terrorism is the use or threat of violence against civilians to achieve any objective. I condemn state and non state terrorism with equal fervor, but lack knowledge about the groups in this conversation. I need to learn more.
Thank you Brandi and Dan for the leads. I will read those documents, and Muslim Mafia, but time is limited.
Some Republicans advocate nuking Mecca. Tom Tancredo for one repeatedly says this and he has much public support. This is terrorism far beyond any non state group. Some Republicans are peaceful people but when they give platform for people to openly call for atomizing innocent civilians that makes them morally culpable IMHO.
At first glance, Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood are political parties in Palestine and Egypt. Like the Republicans, some are peaceful people, and some are willing to advocate terrorism. I think the comparison is quite valid, but it can only be seen if one takes off the blinders of nationalism.
But I need to learn more.
What a joke... "State Terrorism" is redundant. Terrorism should be defined as "Any time non state groups behave like governments." If you give money to governments you're funding terrorism. Period.
CAIR filed for non profit tax status with the US guberment. That's all the evidense you need to prove they are in bed with terrorists.
The FBI cut-off formal relations with CAIR because of the Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror funding trial. They are unsure of their allegance to Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood.
I'm glad, Davi, you will look into Islamism further. You are a good writer and you can do a world of good to write about the difference between Islamism and Islam for the benefit and good of Islam.
Islamists will not acknowledge the difference because they view mosque and state as one entity which is, pure and simple, Islamic supremacy. It is imporant to make this distinction.
Your comparison of the Republican party to Hamas and MB is disturbing. MB is banned in Egypt and Hamas is a designated terrorist organization. It appears you might have bought into some of the Islamists mindset about the right.
You also should clarify fully your views on Islamic martyrdom for the sake of Allah or Islam. Terrorism is not the right word.
Thanks.
Brandi, thank you for your questions. As I say often civil disagreement is the crucible of Truth and reason and evidence are its fire. I humbly disagree with you, but I’m glad we can both be open to the discussion.
I have come across Zuhdi Jasser’s work and I will probably write about him at some point.
My criticisms of the Republican party are not “Islamist” but from a libertarian mindset. I have heard Republicans with my own ears advocate nuking Mecca, and with it millions of innocent civilians. Are you saying this would not constitute state terrorism?
To the extent that Hamas targets civilians I condemn them. To the extent that Hamas builds hospitals, feeds people and builds schools I praise them. I wish the Palestinian people had leadership with more moral credibility, but they don’t. This is the same criterion I consistently apply to Israel, the Republicans, and everyone else.
to be cont...
I am very ambivalent about this conflict. My feeling, after a fairly indepth study of history, is that Israel is the aggressor, and the Palestinians have suffered far greater injustice at their hands than vice versa. I believe quite firmly that there is a very legitimate place for a defensive Palestinian resistance. But, I do not believe that any degree of injustice grants the moral authority to target civilians.
I do not believe that Israel has a right to exist because I do not believe states have the right to exist. I believe, “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” And the Palestinians did not consent. Only people have the right to exist.
There is no politician I know, who does not lie, cheat, fight, befriend, mislead, pressure and do whatever they can to achieve their goal. This is why I do not believe any moral person can be involved in politics. The political machine is inherently violent against civilians.
more soon.
In the post Islamic Retreat (Day Seven) Imran Hosein describes the political order in Medina under the prophet, which is different from the modern concept of Sharia Law. Islam has a political component, which I believe, but that’s too huge a topic too discuss here. I’ll say this. No “Islamic” state nor movement today adheres to this order, and I would never advocate any order be imposed by force, as all secular orders are.
If “Islamists” want Islamic governance, they should strive to overthrow the hypocrites in Arabia, not America
If 100 Muslims were stranded on an island the political order should resemble the order in Medina. They should be free to implement government, “as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” If even one non Muslim were with them that system should protect their freedom of conscience, and their right to not consent.is that the only way to protect freedom of conscience is to require consent of the governed.
My view is that the only way to protect freedom of conscience, which is a larger freedom than freedom of religion, is to require consent of the governed.
What is your view of separation of Synagogue and State in Israel? Or Church and State in the Vatican?
My view on martyrdom is that any person of any faith who gives their life in the path of righteousness deserves tremendous reward from their Lord. A person who dies defending their family from a home invader is a martyr. A champion of civil rights who is assassinated by their enemies is a martyr. A firefighter who dies pulling people from a fire is a martyr. Anyone who dies in an effort to kill even one innocent person should be condemned. But Allah knows best people’s intention.
Brandi, Brandi, Brandi...
Your comment: "The Republican party is NOT a designated a global terrorist organization and illegal to support."
Neither is Hamas and Hezbollah to most of the world. Only the USA and Israel list them as a designtated terrorist organization. Other governments recognize them as political parties.
Also, I never said that the Republican Party were terrorists... I clearly stated: "They are all Political parties which have good and bad sides. All of them have militant extremists in the midst which stir up violence."
One of the biggest body of supporters for the Republican Party are those involved with the Evangelical movement which also includes groups such as the KKK and other WASP supremacy organizations. The NRA supports the Republican party and many of its members have formed illegal militia groups across the country stockpiling illegal weapons and equipment.
Guilt by association works both ways or not at all.
I believe you just confirmed to me you are an Islamist. Your writings should be fully scrutinzed and exposed for what they really are.
::Sigh:: So much for civil discussion. Quote the constitution, get called a terrorist. Just my luck. Ok Brandi, go ahead and turn me into the FBI. In the mean time, why don't you tell me what political system you'd like to force on other people against their will, and which densely populated cities you're willing to nuke in the process.
Can someone tell me what an "Islamist" is? I've always wondered that.
We can still have a discussion because that will help others understand what you really believe.
The Palestinian issue has been languishing for decades after the fall of the Islamic Ottoman Empire. They have been offered statehood at least twice and refused. Islamists believe Israel is their land although the Jewsih religion predates Islam, significantly. It was an Islamic caliphate who seized Jerusalem and built mosques over their temples. Israel is mentioned in both the Bible and the Quran but Palestine is not mentioned once. It didn't exist while Israel did. So history and artifacts back Israel far more.
Why do you say Israel doesn't have the right to exist? What do you mean states don't have a right to exist?
You said you did not approve of Hamas killing innocent people. Yusef Qaradawi, an important Islamist scholar have ruled Israelis are not innocent so it is OK to kill them, including women. Your thoughts.
I asked you about martyrdom in Islam, specifical
Davi you are actually quoting the Declaration of Independence.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
... beautiful!
No Brandi, we can’t. Civil discussion cannot occur under the threat of violence, and without reason and evidence the crucible has no flame. I have firmly and unquestionably denounced terrorism in all forms, condemned the initiation of violence for any reason, and opened myself to logical scrutiny. You have not. You have in fact ignored multiple opportunities to do this, and instead called me an “Islamist” an ideology which you support violence against.
If you want to continue to have a civil discussion I need you to condemn the initiation of violence, specifically against me. I need you denounce terrorism in all forms, specifically the dropping of a nuclear weapon on a civilian population. And I need you to open yourself to logical scrutiny, specifically your view on the separation of Synagogue and State in Israel.
I will not pretend polite conversation with someone who advocates violence against me.
BTW, the end of my last post didn't get added (I guess it was too long).
I asked you about martyrdom in Islam, specifically. You replied back in a general way. I want specifics on Islam and how it was/is taught to you. You see, Davi, martyrdom is not taught in Christian sunday school or in our public schools or in Christians homes. So we don't say anyone was martyred. It is not a concept we wrap our arms around, at all. We find it distasteful to glorify death for a cause because we value the sanctity of life to the fullest. It is so sad to see little Muslim kids being taught to want to die for the sake of Allah or Isalm. This is not right.
more to come...
Regarding the Islamic retreat you attended I was referring to the 4th day when you went to the Muslim Village, a proposed Islamic micro community in Trinidad, that would be ruled by Sharia - that is what I was referring to and your comment; "Clarification is needed by me what exactly is meant by this,".
Also on the retreat you wrote:
"...The Shaikh then made a bold claim, that the Israeli Mossad, and the CIA jointly planned and executed the attacks of 9-11. And he challenged any who support the official story of the American Government to come forward with their evidence. He asserts that the attack was a monstrous lie used to pursue a political and economic agenda already in motion. I want to pause here for a moment. I know the 9-11 Truth movement has considerable steam in America, but it remains a fringe opinion. If the local and international visitors to this retreat are any indication, this belief is much more prevalent around the world. I personally take no position..."
You take no position on the 9/11 truthers? Davi, who threatened you with violence on these comments? I haven't seen any. What a cop-out. Also, Davi, denouncing terrorism is not enough. Do you denounce Islamic martyrdom for the sake of Allah or Islam?
You can't do it can you? You can't condemn dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people. A person who claims to value the sactity of life, but can't recognize that as the most egregious moral evil mankind is capable of has no moral credibility with me.
Troll said - Brandi YOUR... A HIPOCRITE! All your… nonsense about separation of mosque and state and then you justify Israel, #1 human rights violator in the world, WITH THE BIBLE!... You know what fine. Lets give North America back to the Native Americans and call any American that doesn’t like it a terrorist. Better yet, lets round up all you white people and put you in a walled compound in the Caucus mountains. How far back do you want to go?... Martyrdom is not taught in Christianity? LIE! The whole… religion is about martyrdom. White Jeezus dies for your sins remember? Don’t glorify death? You put sculptures of a bloody caucus up on the wall and worship it!... Practically every Cathlic saint is a martyr. You glorify your soldiers as martyrs. You people worship death! Go sell crazy someplace else. We’re all stocked up here.
Troll – we’ve talked about the ad hominem attacks. So, I’m censoring your post. But I think you make good points, and I enjoy your comments. So, I’m not deleting it.
Brandi, My understanding is that you support a war on “Islamism.” You’ve called me an “Islamist.” Ergo, you support violence against me. If this is incorrect, I will retract my statement.
You say, “denouncing terrorism is not enough” but you won’t even denounce dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people. Not enough for what? I’m still waiting for you to clarify your view on separation of Synagogue and State.
“Martyr” from the Biblical Greek means “witness.” “Shaheed” from the Quranic Arabic means “witness.” The concept is the same. “In the path of righteousness” and “for the sake of God” are synonymous in both religions. Christianity does venerate martyrs, as Troll so indelicately expressed. I don’t believe suicide or terrorism are righteousness. If you want a more precise answer, you’ll need to ask a more precise question.
The Muslim Village refers specifically to 2,000 acres privately owned on a Caribbean island. If you want to talk about it, I suggest you go read Day Seven and comment there.
I take no position on 911 because I think the 911 Truthers sufficiently disprove the 911 Commission report, but don’t sufficiently prove that it was an inside job. I’m hoping to find some certainty when evidence is presented in the KSM trial.
Brandi, I have been more than generous with my answers. I feel I am entitled to have my questions answered.
Do you condemn violence against peaceful people, specifically me?
Do you denounce terrorism in all forms, specifically nuking innocent people?
What is your view of separation of Synagogue and State, specifically Israel’s Biblical claim to land ownership?
Would you force a political system on other people against their will?
Do you support the freedom of conscience?
You are not making good sense here because you are trying to put words in my mouth. Use what I wrote in these comments, quote them, and then comment. Stating "you support violence against me" is a total lie. Shame on you.
You are the one who wrote the article, not me, so your questions back to me don't fit in with trying to learn more about you - the author.
The logic is so simple it's painful. Watch:
Do you support a war on "Islamism?" Yes or no
Did you call me an "Islamist?" Yes or no
If you answered "yes" to both of these questions, you support violence against me. If the answer is "no" to either of these questions... Just say so and we'll move on. It's not hard. But I will not pretend polite conversation with someone who will not denounce violence against me when I have openly and without hesitation denounced violence against you.
You said we can have a discussion. That involves back and forth. If you can’t answer simple questions there’s no point in continuing a discussion. You want to learn more about me? I teach with the Socratic method… that means I ask Socratic questions.
You are not making good sense here because you are trying to put words in my mouth. Use what I wrote in these comments, quote them, and then comment. Stating "you support violence against me" is a total lie. Shame on you.
You are the one who wrote the article, not me, so your questions back to me don't fit in with trying to learn more about you - the author.
Brandi Said: "You see, Davi, martyrdom is not taught in Christian sunday school or in our public schools or in Christians homes. So we don't say anyone was martyred. It is not a concept we wrap our arms around, at all. We find it distasteful to glorify death for a cause because we value the sanctity of life to the fullest."
ALL LIES!!!!!!
I used to teach Sunday School in both the Pentecostal and the Methodist churches. Martyrdom is VERY MUCH taught in Christian Church!!!
The Symbols of all the saints and apostles are all created after the ways they were martyred!
People who died in defense of their faith in Christianity ARE lifted up as examples to live up to!
You look to Jesus Christ and his sacrifice on behalf of belief as the ultimate symbol of worship in your religion and yet you claim that there is no concept of martyrs in Christianity?!?!
Do you even know your religion or do you just like attacking Islam?
Pages
Got something to say?
Examiner.com is looking for writers, photographers, and videographers to join the fastest growing group of local insiders. If you are interested in growing your online rep apply to be an Examiner today!