A while back I wrote a piece titled, The Elephant in the room: What the online poker sites need to do about it, outlining the problems online poker is faced with because of data-mining. After spending some more time thinking about the problem I decided to revisit the dilemma that is data-mining and expand on my original thought.
In the original piece I argued that data-mining software creates an unequal playing field, allowing experienced players to further exploit the blissfully ignorant –as if we don’t fleece them enough already. I actually don’t think I went far enough in my original analysis, as I placed the bulk of the blame on the poker sites –actually 100%-- and none on the players. In my opinion, what the players that are 12-tabling with PokerTracker and a HUD running, while they look up a player on SharkScope.com on their laptop are doing is no better than a phony psychic who used Google to find info on you before you showed up.
The argument is that every player has access to these tools, but this is hyperbole at its best, since most players are completely unaware of the existence of many of these tools –go ahead type in the chat-box of any game with a buy-in under $200 how many people use PokerTracker, SharkScope, PokerTableRatings, and so on.
So, if the poker site’s policy is that it doesn’t create a competitive imbalance then why don’t they advertise all of the wonderful tools available to online poker players at their site?!?! Because this is online poker’s dirty little secret; not only are these winning, experienced, players better than you, they are also using unscrupulous means to beat you out of your money even faster. They are offsetting their losses with rakeback deals that you have no clue about, they are compiling empirical data about your play by purchasing your information, and they are using software to play more and more tables at once. And the online poker sites are complicit in this scheme.
This is no better than Facebook and other online companies selling your personal information and interests to advertisers –Here the online poker sites are allowing your data to be collected and sold off to people trying to take your money. They could stop it if they chose to, but it’s so far gone now that it would upset the poker balance, not to mention fighting the problem would be admitting there IS a problem in the first place! So the alternative is to keep it as hushed-up as possible, thereby making the imbalance all the more pronounced.
The real issue is what is being sold to the general public, and what is actually taking place. The general public is told they can play poker right in their home, safe, secure, and the same as a casino. But when I go to the casino I don’t go with the notion that all of my statistics for the past 10 years will be on display and available to anyone with $100. But this is precisely what is happening online. Just like the ads on the side of your Facebook that are almost always of things that interest you, the online poker sites are allowing your personal information to be collected for the benefit of others.
The more you think about it the more you realize that these Superstar Poker Players are really nothing more than a baseball player who is stealing a peek at the catcher’s signs –even if they are Barry Bonds and you’re just a bench-warmer on your high-school team, it’s still unscrupulous. Unfortunately, right now there is no recourse for them, or they will lose to players who will do this whether it’s legal or illegal, or they would be forced to play only 1 or 2 poker tables to compensate for their lack of data.
Comments
Very good article, Steve. I agree that data mining is unscrupulous, but if you play online, how can you compete against those who are doing it to you? I've been stubborn about it and the only thing I use are free online stats to look up players once in awhile. But I know that most of the good players have much more than that on me.
Totally agree Rebekah. I don't fault the players that use it, becuase they have little choice --esppecially if they are mid-stakes or higher players. Personally I stopped using any software almost two years ago --I don't even import hand histories into my Poker Tracker to look at MY stats anymore.
I didn't do this to be holier than thou, I just don't like using the software, and I find my reads are better playing only 1 or 2 table than playing 4-6 with a HUD running. The main reason is I think we will see data-mining banned before we see leagalized onlinew poker and I want ot be ahead of the curve
I can't speak for everyone else, but I have no problem beating 100nl without my Hud. Sometimes I think playing less tables and not using my Hud would make me more profit as I can concentrate on the action more. A lot of inexperienced players play very badly after losing a big pot or taking a bad beat. I definitely don't need a Hud to take chips from a fish If I am playing say 8 tables as opposed to 12 to 16 I can carefully watch the action more carefully and play more pots with these players. You can have two different players with the same numbers popping up on your Hud, but believe me they can play completely different depending on table dynamics and history you have against them. No Hud info can truly tell you to lay down kk preflop, it comes with knowledge of bet sizing, table position etc. Good players go beyond a Hud. They study poker and there opponents, write notes..etc............I say take away the Hud. And you will see the good players will keep on playing and winning.
Another possibility is for a site to level the playing field and give everyone access to stats on other players at the table at the very least. At some point we might have to consider that online poker and live poker are two different games.
In live poker, the rule is one player per hand, but that is impossible to enforce in online games, as people can have friends look at their hands over shoulders or even via chat.
If the stats are available to pros for a fee, I have felt for a long time that the sites should just give the stats the player asks for...if you want to know what has happened, just ask the right questions...the right question is usually the hard part anyway. Of course,slowing down the game is not a good thing, but sometimes people need a bit of extra time to make a decision...give players a time bank for asking for stats, like they give now for disconnects and thinking time.
This article is useless. Datamining hasn't worked on major sites in a long time. The only way to get hand histories now is to buy them, and you'd have to buy new ones at least every month or two to keep up, and that just costs too much for most low stakes players.
What exactly are the poker sites meant to do to stop sites like HandHQ.com from selling hands? Unless they stop anonymous users from viewing tables altogether there is no way to stop them gathering hands. No body would be happy if you could no longer railbird.
I guess the new anonymous tables could put a stop to the business of selling poker data?
On principal, I agree with you Steve. That said, PTR has done some pretty important things to strengthen the integrity of the industry. They've made it easier to spot cheaters, software glitches, etc. I don't like the idea of datamining, but I do like what they've done in an effort to clean it all up.
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