The FAA on Friday released the transcripts of Northwest flight 188 which overshot the Twin Cities on October 21. Air traffic controllers repeatedly asked the pilots why they hadn't responded to earlier attempts to contact them and were told that they had been distracted. No cause of the distraction was ever provided. The pilots, during interviews with the National Transportation Safety Board, advised that they were discussing Delta Air Lines complicated new crew scheduling program over their personal laptop computers.
The flight from San Diego remained at its cruise altitude of 37,000 feet for 150 miles beyond the Minneapolis/St. Paul International Airport and was out of contact with air traffic control for 77 minutes despite more than a dozen attempts to reach the cockpit crew. A minute and a half after re-establishing contact a controller said, "I just have to verify that the cockpit is secure", meaning that they had to be certain that a hijacking or terrorist incident wasn't in progress.
One of the pilots responded to this query, saying "It is secure. We got distracted." The same pilot also told controllers that neither he nor the other pilot ever heard the controllers trying to contact them. Not only did the controllers try repeatedly to reach the cockpit crew, but the airline's dispatcher attempted contact via company channels, also without success.
A few minutes later after contact had been made the aircraft had begun the process of returning to the Twin Cities another controller asked, "Do you have time to give a brief explanation on what happened?" The response from one of the pilots was, "Cockpit distractions. That's all I can say." The same controller, 12 minutes after contact was re-established asked again, "Is there any way you can elaborate on the distraction?" He was told at this time that the cockpit crew had been dealing with some company issues, and "that's all I can tell you right now at this time."
Air traffic controllers also checked to be sure that the aircraft had sufficient fuel to return to Minneapolis/St. Paul. After having the pilots make several turns to ensure that they were in control of the aircraft, the aircraft began its descent to an eventual landing at MSP. The police and federal authorities met the aircraft at the gate.
Both pilots have had their flying licenses rescinded by the FAA and were suspended by Delta Air Lines. Delta bought Northwest Airlines in October of 2008. The pilots are fighting the license revocation and suspension via legal channels.
Comments
It would be interesting to know more about these "distractions" from the pilots. It will also be interesting to see how their fight goes in trying to rescind the recension and revoke the revocation.
Because of the pilots difficulty in coming up with a reasonable explanation, we must assume it was illegal or embarassing behavior going on in the cockpit. I would guess sexual activity. It would be interesting to ask passengers if any flight crews were absent from the passenger compartment during this period of time. Arguing about company policies for that long and totally forgetting about the aircraft is absurd.
I think there's a logical explanation for the change in stories. They were being brief in their radio communications, and gave the "short" answer. I am puzzled why a full disclosure wasn't given at their first hearing, unless they were advised by the union and attorneys to avoid the error with the radio frequency. The other conflict I have is that pilots have a flight plan to follow, which specifies radio transmissions at certain checkpoints. I don't know if they have a log which has not be marked after each task is completed. Their duty was to comply in flying the aircraft under certain procedures and protocols. In that, they failed. I'm not comfortable with banning them from their careers for the rest of their lives. Even Pete Rose is being reconsidered for the Hall of Fame. I think one of them screwed up badly, and the other pilot, out of compassion for his buddy, may have given an edited account.
Joel, thanks for the comments but....Pete Rose bet on baseball games. These pilots bet on the lives of 147 people. All of the 'what ifs' that thank goodness didn't happen are enough reason for me for them to lose their pilot licenses permanently.
From Waves:
The author Marc Friedman loves to bash airlines and pilots. Good to see you are still on top of this issue like a vulture Marc.
To Joel: You are correct about the flight plan, but you are completely incorrect about specific radio transmissions at certain checkpoints. The only time that is applicable is in some foreign countries and crossing the ocean tracks, and even those examples are becoming rarer as we continue to get better radio coverage and better English speaking controllers. Undoubtedly this flight crew made a serious error, but I am in agreement with you that banning their careers for life is much too severe of punishment. In this case, the punishment does not fit the crime. By the way, these guys never endangered anyones lives as many people seem to think. I can elaborate specifically if anyone cares to hear it.
To Ted: The distractions WERE two laptops. If you think it was something else, then you do not understand this issue whatsoever.
To Mandaue:
From Waves:
The author Marc Friedman loves to bash airlines and pilots. Good to see you are still on top of this issue like a vulture Marc.
To Joel: You are correct about the flight plan, but you are completely incorrect about specific radio transmissions at certain checkpoints. The only time that is applicable is in some foreign countries and crossing the ocean tracks, and even those examples are becoming rarer as we continue to get better radio coverage and better English speaking controllers. Undoubtedly this flight crew made a serious error, but I am in agreement with you that banning their careers for life is much too severe of punishment. In this case, the punishment does not fit the crime. By the way, these guys never endangered anyones lives as many people seem to think. I can elaborate specifically if anyone cares to hear it.
To Ted: The distractions WERE two laptops. If you think it was something else, then you do not understand this issue whatsoever.
To Mandaue:
From Waves:
The author Marc Friedman loves to bash airlines and pilots. Good to see you are still on top of this issue like a vulture Marc.
To Joel: You are correct about the flight plan, but you are completely incorrect about specific radio transmissions at certain checkpoints. The only time that is applicable is in some foreign countries and crossing the ocean tracks, and even those examples are becoming rarer as we continue to get better radio coverage and better English speaking controllers. Undoubtedly this flight crew made a serious error, but I am in agreement with you that banning their careers for life is much too severe of punishment. In this case, the punishment does not fit the crime. By the way, these guys never endangered anyones lives as many people seem to think. I can elaborate specifically if anyone cares to hear it.
To Ted: The distractions WERE two laptops. If you think it was something else, then you do not understand this issue whatsoever.
To Mandaue:
From Waves:
The author Marc Friedman loves to bash airlines and pilots. Good to see you are still on top of this issue like a vulture Marc.
To Joel: You are correct about the flight plan, but you are completely incorrect about specific radio transmissions at certain checkpoints. The only time that is applicable is in some foreign countries and crossing the ocean tracks, and even those examples are becoming rarer as we continue to get better radio coverage and better English speaking controllers. Undoubtedly this flight crew made a serious error, but I am in agreement with you that banning their careers for life is much too severe of punishment. In this case, the punishment does not fit the crime. By the way, these guys never endangered anyones lives as many people seem to think. I can elaborate specifically if anyone cares to hear it.
To Ted: The distractions WERE two laptops. If you think it was something else, then you do not understand this issue whatsoever.
To Mandaue:
I see Wave is one of those individuals that believes no one is accountable for their actions and there is no way to get him to see it differently. Wave, you really don't know what you're talking about especially when it comes to communications to ground stations. There is a time when communication IS required and that's when one traffic controller passes an aircraft over to another controller in a different city or different part of the country. Obviously the pilots and you missed that obligation.
To Mandaue from Waves: Yeah, you are so right. I don’t know what I’m talking about. I guess my two Aviation university degrees, three years as a civilian test pilot, eight years as a Navy fighter pilot, twenty years as a major airline pilot and line check airman, a civilian and military instructor pilot, and aerobatic instructor pilot all just went down the drain because you know so much more than I do. My mistake. By the way, I never insinuated in any way that these two pilots should not be held accountable. All I’m saying is that the punishment does not fit the infraction. Secondly, if someone presents a logical argument for something, I am always open for debate and change. Please tell me more about this communication thing that I have missed. Waves
To Mandaue from Waves: Yeah, you are so right. I don’t know what I’m talking about. I guess my two Aviation university degrees, three years as a civilian test pilot, eight years as a Navy fighter pilot, twenty years as a major airline pilot and line check airman, a civilian and military instructor pilot, and aerobatic instructor pilot all just went down the drain because you know so much more than I do. My mistake. By the way, I never insinuated in any way that these two pilots should not be held accountable. All I’m saying is that the punishment does not fit the infraction. Secondly, if someone presents a logical argument for something, I am always open for debate and change. Please tell me more about this communication thing that I have missed. Waves
From Waves: Not sure why it keeps posting multiple times considering I only submitted it once?????
To Mandaue: Upon review of earlier posts, I now realize that you were among those who childishly implied some sort of sexual behavior from the flight crew. Sorry to be so blunt, but you obviously have no clue whatsoever.
Must run for now, but I will assuredly return later. It would be refreshing if you actually had some constructive criticism but I’m sure it will just be more nonsense and slams from you.
Waves
GRRRRRR- this whole situation with these pilots is making me MAD!
Marc- you're a pilot, and you do not pilot bash. You have been fair in all of your coverage. I will bash though- my BF has a pilots license, if he did anyyyyything like this, I would support them FIRING my own BF. These two pilots' behavior, their responses, I dont care what their distraction was, is UNACCEPTABLE! Maybe I am too sensitive, being post 9-11, but pilots have an OBLIGATION to make sure they are doing their JOBS to the fullest potential, and if they can not- then let someone who is willing to, do it for them. It's called accountability- Fire them both, make a statement so that it never happens again.
Just my 2 cents.
To Jennifer from Waves: Sorry Jenny, but Marc spends a great deal of his time bashing pilots and airlines. If you can show me an article he has written about this subject that does not do this, I would love to see it. By the way, just so ya know, there is no such thing as a pilot license. The FAA does not issue licenses of any kind. Also, you are indeed too sensitive as you say. These pilots did not endanger anyone’s lives as you might think or as the vultures like you portray. I can elaborate or answer any question you might want to address on the issue. I will also make you a deal; I won’t pretend to be an expert in your field, if you promise not to imply that you know anything about this incident or aviation in general. Waves
Waves-actually, I don't know what the procedure is for attaining a job or license as a pilot in the U.S. My BF is from Germany, and in Europe they do indeed issue a pilots license! You should not make assumptions about what I do and dont know.
If you look at Marcs articles, he does not "bash" pilots, I have seen him display concern when an airline has crashed and the pilot is injured or worse. Example:check out his article BREAKING NEWS:body of pilot found in wreckage of small plane. Not to mention, he is a REPORTER, not a commentator. He is not expected to show bias for either direction. If he chooses to do so in his comments, certainly then he has a right to say what he pleases.
I did not imply anything, I simply stated that they had an obligation to do their job, and(at least on that day)they sucked at it. I, like the vast majority of travelers, believe they should be fired. You may disagree, but you are one of very few.
Dont worry Marc, Manadue,Joel, Ted & Ms. Baeta, WAVES is just here to start trouble- we in the south call it "homosexual-denial-induced-rage."
I took the time to read several of Marcs articles because of Waves posts here... I have to say, Marc isn't bad at covering a story, the only negative opinions I found were related to this incident, which certainly are understandable given the circumstances.
Thanks WAVE- I might not have known to look at these Examiners/ writers had your comments not been so narrow minded, pompous, or arrogant.
PART 1 To Jenifer from Waves: I may have been a bit harsh in my reply to you, but your uncompassionate and unforgiving comments about sacrificing these two pilots as an example to others certainly merited a harsh response. You people act as if they robbed a bank and killed all the tellers. Just so ya know, they didn’t even break a law. They unintentionally violated a few FAR’s, but with the laptop issue in the public eye, the FAA chose to make an example of them WITHOUT PRECEDENCE. By the way, the FAR’s they violated had nothing to do with their laptops. They also did not endanger any passengers as you probably believe and the news media has portrayed. This entire fiasco has turned into a public lynch mob which will listen to no reason. I can certainly elaborate on this issue as well. The FAA, the NTSB, and the news media have blown this thing into something that it is not. Waves
PART 2 To Jenifer from Waves: You are also very correct that I am in the minority of people who think their punishment was much too severe for the infraction. This is because most people and travelers are like you and have absolutely no concept of flight level aviation. I can certainly elaborate on this issue too if you wish. I have been in aviation for over 35 years and I do know a few things about the industry. I would be more than happy to share my credentials with you if you like. Remember pilots have big egos that must be stroked from time to time, otherwise we begin to cry. Ha As far as Marc’s articles go, you are referring to a private pilot airplane crash, not an airline or airline pilot. You are comparing apples to well, you know. I respect Marc’s right to publish anything he desires whether I like it or not. As an airline pilot, I do not like it. Waves
PART 3 To Jenifer from Waves: I apologize if you have more knowledge about the industry than what your BF has to tell you. You are also correct in that I should not make assumptions as to your knowledge of the aviation industry. I was only going by your comments which sort of indicate that you really don’t know anything about the aviation industry whatsoever. If you are an expert in this field, please accept my humble apologies. Waves
Part 1 To Smartie Pants from Waves: I don’t usually respond to dumass comments like yours, but I feel the need to stoop to your level here, even if only for a moment. Yeah you hit it right on the nail head with your above average Mississippi intelligence. Did you come up with the homosexual thing on your own, or did you have help from an intellectually superior third grader? That statement is very cute and I’m sure you will be a hit with your readers. Why do you sexually perverted people always have to invent stuff like this? Just wondering where the real problem is???Of course, I think we all know. Waves
Part 2 To Smartie Pants from Waves: I have been following Marc’s articles for some time now. My invitation is still open. Please point me in the direction of an airline aviation related article written by him that is not in some way a slam to the aviation industry. You people continue to use private pilot articles to defend his bias against airlines and airline pilots. I am not above eating crow. Just show me an article relating to airlines or airline pilots that are not degrading in some way. By the way, I repeat, the FAA does not issue any licenses, only certificates. There is a huge difference if you care to find out. Waves
ToMarc from Waves: Because I do not like your airline and airline pilot bashing articles, please at least get it right. Pilots do not have licenses to revoke or suspend. There is no such thing as a pilot license. The FAA DOES NOT ISSUE LICENSES. The FAA only issues certificates. Am I talking semantics? No, I am not. There is a humongous difference between the two. Do you understand what the differences are? I will be more than happy to list the vast differences between the two if you are truly interested in my industry, but I doubt you really care. For those who post with inferences about pilot licenses, please understand that this highlights the fact that you know nothing of aviation. Waves
ToMarc from Waves: Because I do not like your airline and airline pilot bashing articles, please at least get it right. Pilots do not have licenses to revoke or suspend. There is no such thing as a pilot license. The FAA DOES NOT ISSUE LICENSES. The FAA only issues certificates. Am I talking semantics? No, I am not. There is a humongous difference between the two. Do you understand what the differences are? I will be more than happy to list the vast differences between the two if you are truly interested in my industry, but I doubt you really care. For those who post with inferences about pilot licenses, please understand that this highlights the fact that you know nothing of aviation. Waves
Waves- actually, that raises a question for me. You are obviously educated about the industry- what alternative action could have been warranted or are more appropriate (in your opinion) under the circumstances with these pilots? My problem honestly, is not that they didn't communicate or that they "over-shot" their destination by a bit of a distance- my only real issue is that with their ever changing stories, I no longer believe a word that they say. If they are on their laptops and simply can not stop their Mafia Wars or Farmville game, ok. If they were sleeping, ok. If they were busy joining the "mile-high club", ok. Whatever it was, just admit or at least have one straight story and move on. The changing of their stories is what bothers me. It is up to the airline to uphold their own integrity, can these pilots really be trusted to help them to do that in the future?
Part 1 @Jennifer from Waves: A fair question which I will answer after I address your secondary misguided thoughts about them changing their story. The flight crew never changed their story whatsoever. The only source of the sleeping excuse and sexual behavior have come from irresponsible journalism and the armchair aviation specialists. First of all, the air traffic controller repeatedly asked them if they could elaborate. Their response was we got distracted. Of course at this point they knew they had made a serious error and had violated some FAR’s. Any response at all from them is now usable against them for certificate action and or large fines. Remember the Miranda rights? Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law, etc. They also later stated that they were having an argument or discussion about company policy. If anything could be construed as being changed, it would simply be whether it was a heated discussion or not.
Part 2 @Jennifer from Waves: That’s a matter of interpretation between the two discussing the issue. When Cole was bombarded by reporters in front of his home, he told them it was an innocuous event and that he had already said too much. Indeed he had. The FAA revoked their certificates without even holding hearings on the matter. The laptop issue became news after the hearings were held. Although strictly against our company policy, laptops above 10,000 feet are not prohibited by the FAA. The FAR they violated was simply not following the filed IFR flight plan and or last accepted ATC clearance. Unless this offense is done maliciously or intentionally without good reason, it is rarely a cause for permanent revocation of one’s pilot certificate. Generally the FAA would most likely suspend a pilot’s certificate for a year or so and possibly levy a fine.
Part 3 @Jennifer from Waves: Because the NTSB, the FAA, the news media, and the traveling public turned this event into a circus, the FAA lynched this flight crew for the public. Incidentally, even if they get their certificates back, I doubt that Delta would ever take them back for all the same reasons as above. Their careers as airline pilots are most likely over no matter what. I think that is punishment enough, don’t you? And one last thing: Also contrary to popular belief, these guys never endangered anyone’s lives either. I can elaborate, but I’ve already typed enough for now. Waves
From Waves: What happened to the rebuttals from the lynch mob section? I guess I’d better put down the laptop and get that descent going. Ha Waves
Waves, looks like you LOVE having your name in print and the useless trash from your computer taking up valuable space. Too bad...all that pent-up anger could be taken out on a punching bag. Who knows, you might even win. I have two pilots in the family, and you don't have any better credentials than they do. Both of them believe the pilots were asleep. I've never seen/heard such drivel except when you are posting it.
Waves- yours is actually good insight. You clearly stated the rules in which they violated and how the story came to be so twisted in the media frenzy. Though I actually agree with you and do not believe that those aboard this flight were at any real risk, you can not blame anyone in the general public or in the industry for recognizing the "potentially" dangerous situation they put themselves and their passengers into by not following company policy. Honestly, I do not believe these two men are bad pilots (or people), they simply had very bad jusgement. By not coming out with a formal statement, it essentially gave the media the loaded weapon they were looking for. By not giving any reason why they were not in contact with the ATCs, other than to say, "we were distaracted," how can anyone fairly state that their behavior was not intentional or malicious? Assume it was their laptops, isn't it intention to ALLOW yourself to be THAT distracted when you have such a responisbility?
ah, darn typos. Excuse them please. Between jet lag, switching between languages, and finally getting my beloved computer/laptop back from the manufacturer following a warranty repair, I am COMPLETELY frazzled this evening.
To Ronna from Waves: Very cute. I knew the lynch mob was still lurking about. It’s not me that has pent up anger, it is people like you. Why don’t you get your inexperienced private pilot relatives to explain why these two highly experienced pilots would make up a lie that would surely get them fired? With all the news about inadequate crew rest, had they simply fallen asleep, they may have been able to save their jobs, but not with the laptop issue. Also, both of them simultaneously falling soundly asleep on the first leg of their day after a nineteen hour layover doesn’t make sense either. By the way, I would be more than happy to compare credentials and experience levels with your two private pilot relatives. I probably have more inverted flight time than they have total time. The next time you post, you may want to remove your foot from your mouth, and your head from your, well you know.
To Jennifer from Waves: Thanks, Jenny for the logical and reasonable post. I will have to agree with you on that. Intentionally distracting themselves with two laptops was a bad judgment call for sure. Also, keep in mind that they did not break any FAR’s by using their laptops. These guys are Northwest pilots who are now switching to DAL procedures and policies. I cannot say whether NWA’s policy restricts the use of laptops or not. If not, this flight crew may not have known it was against DAL policy. This is of course is total speculation on my part. Either way, it was still as we used to say in the Navy, “A below in headwork.” I guess this incident could be compared to someone texting while driving and then causing an accident. It could be argued that they intentionally caused an accident by using their cell phone while driving. Semantics I think. Reiterating my earlier point: These guys messed up bad, but their punishment does not fit the infraction. Waves
To Jennifer from Waves: Now I have a somewhat related question for you. In all the years I have been flying for the airlines, I have always wondered where the airport delay info is generated. Is it the Travel Tips Examiner like you the source of the airport delay times for airports around the country? I’m just wondering where that stuff comes from, because those delay times are almost always incorrect. Countless times the First Officer and I have been in the gatehouse area getting our final paperwork to push back and see these erroneous delay times posted on the news. My question is not meant to be offensive. When I saw your title, I just thought I would ask. Thanks, Waves
To All from Waves: Since this incident happened, and 5000 posts later, every single person who believes they were asleep has not answered that fundamental question, yet so many still stick to that illogical conclusion. If they fell asleep, why would they make up a story about the laptops when their ALPA attorneys undoubtedly informed them that the laptops were definitely grounds for termination by DAL policy? WHY, WHY, WHY? Why would they do that considering the fact that inadvertently falling asleep, as ridiculous as that theory is, is possibly forgivable by the FAA and DAL? That’s like getting a ticket for running a red light, and then arguing no that could not have been me running the red light because I was clear across town robbing a convenience store and then getting involved in a hit and run. WHY, WHY, WHY would anyone do this? Can anyone of you sleep theorists explain this to me? I just don’t get it?????? Waves
Waves- pt-1, Lets start from your last post- Personally, I don't believe they (they two pilots) were sleeping. I agree, how can two separate persons find that much comfort in such a confined space after having adequate time to obtain more than enough rest prior to this flight.?.?. It may very well be that they were engrossed in laptop 'stuff' as they claimed. I am not sure about this though, I have a leptop, and even when I am intent on ignoring my three screaming/playing children in order to work or play, it doesn't happen, and that is in an attempt to ignore them. But, they (the polits) claim that it was laptops, who am I to say different. However, I understand why people can not see how that claim is feasible. Which is why the sleep accusation has run rampant- it is just not believable that a laptop could be that kind of a distraction. A matter of five minutes, certainly, but not for such an extended duration.
Waves- Pt-2, Actually, no offense taken to your question regarding where these delay reports come from. Believe it or not, as an Examiner, I am 'on my own', as is every Examiner, to find sources of information. That being said, specific to travel tips, which is a very general title indeed, I rely on person to person contacts and or references to obtain any information. For delay time specific to flights, I get reports from the National air traffic controllers association, the Bureau of Transportation (statistics), The Department of Transportation, and last (but certainly not least) The FAA. Of course it would be benficial to have these delays confirmed by either airlines or airports directly, but as a reporter, I usually do not confirm delays nor do I report on them drectly. I will give readers the resources to make the call and do the research on their own in order for them to determine if their flight is delayed or cancelled.
Can I just add one more thing- these pilots should have been fired, and required to go through some sort of training, or reviews of policies and procedures, been forced to pay a fine, and then become eligible for re-hire. I do not believe that these two men deserved to lose their pilots certificates for any amount of time exceeding one year. Losing their job would have been sufficient, and would have helped the airline to keep their integrity. I do understand why it stirred up people and their thoughts based on the media reporting involved- and you can not deny that their response, of being distracted with no real cause other than a 'heated discussion', and later stating that it was because of their laptops- Do you think that if they had landed the flight and prepared a statement immediately following, that it would have satisfied the hunger of journalists and calmed the uneasiness of travelers? Would that be taken into consideration in regards to their suspensions, and certificates?
Part 1 To Jennifer from Waves: I’m happy to hear from you again. I’m also glad to see you are not one of the illogical people who completely ignore all logic and common sense. I’m also in a hurry; so much of this may not make sense. To think both of them simultaneously fell asleep on their first leg after a nineteen hour rest break is just asinine. I am restricted in what I can say about flight attendant entry into the cockpit, but I will say that after 911, the cockpit has become a fortress with all but the necessary entries. Other than taking huge reductions in compensation and losing our pensions, this above all else is probably what we hate the most about the after effects of 911.As far as losing track of time with the laptops. A cockpit is sometimes the most exciting and dynamic place imaginable and other times it is the most boring place in the world and devoid of life itself.
Part 2 To Jennifer from Waves: To get absorbed in ones laptop is not unreasonable at all. As I used to always say about computers, “I have never spent so much time saving time in all my life.” So fundamentally, I must disagree with you in that I fully believe their laptops could have engulfed their concentration to this degree.
Thanks for the insights into your world and answering my question.
I disagree that these pilots should have been fired. Because of the pilot seniority issues, firing them is something that is not revocable. I agree that they should have gotten one year off. Anytime pilots do something out of the norm, retraining is always mandatory. If you were ever privy to one of our simulator training periods, you would probably say this was punishment enough. Ha
As far as why the public has chosen their position on this issue, I totally understand. With my experience, I just don’t happen to agree with them. I must run, but will return in the morn. Waves
Part 3 To Jennifer from Waves: Correction to my last post. I meant irreversible, not revocable. One thing that is overlooked by the FAA and by the lynch mob types is that this event is not the first time this has happened to a flight crew; however, it is the first time the FAA and news media has overly exaggerated it and turned into something it is not. I remember a 757 incident. The FO was new to the aircraft; the Captain went back to the restroom. When he returned, he discovered the FO hadn’t noticed the TOD and had somehow missed all radio calls. They had over flown their destination by about the same distance as the NWA’s crew did. They both got some time off and retraining for their mistake. That incident was only in the news for a day or so. They broke the exact same FAR’s as did the NWA’s crew, but they received a commensurate amount of punishment for their infraction. The NWA’s crew not only permanently lost their pilot certificates, but their livelihoods as well.
Part 4 To Jennifer from Waves: Here is an analogy to ponder. This incident would be very similar to two people not paying attention and running a traffic light. One person quietly pays a $100 fine, but the news media gets to the other person’s dangerous, careless, and reckless traffic violation. Even though this person has never had any traffic violations ever in thirty years of safe driving, this person has their driver’s license immediately and permanently revoked, and gets fired from their professional job forever, never to be able to get work in their 30 year profession ever again. Some people won’t like this analogy, but that’s OK, they can just remain with the hanging posy. Waves
Waves- It is good to get your insight. Actually, I would like to ask you to email me if you dont mind- I have some 'off the record' questions I would like to ask you about this incident and piloting in general since, I believe, you are a very educated person in the industry that I happen to have a voice about. Jenntravels@mail.com
If this 'overflown' flight was not a 'new' occurance, why was a different punishment given to these two pilots???? Was it due to the media spin? I have so many questions, please take the time to email me. J
Hi Jenn from Waves: I actually thought you were not going to return. I’m glad you did. I am always willing to field questions about the airline industry. I have been involved in aviation since I was a teen. I have built my entire life around aviation. I don’t pretend to have all of the answers, but I do know more than the average bear. I am also always receptive to “off the record” email exchanges with nice, normal, and open-minded people like yourself. I know we got off to a wrong start, but I think we are now at least in the same book, if not on the same page. I will send this post to you in an email as well so you will be able to return email questions. To answer your deep, deep, and important questions online will unfortunately take reams of posts, and Ronna already thinks I just do this to see my name in print. Ha We seem to be out of phase on time, but I will continue to check this site until no one responds. Waves
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