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Arm chair generals help shape surge in Iraq

Jul 25, 2007 8:30 AM (496 days ago) by Rowan Scarborough, The Examiner
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Related Topics: WASHINGTON
American Enterprise Institute's Thomas Donnelly is one of a group of military experts who single handedly convinced the White House to change its strategy on Iraq.
(Courtesy, AEI)
American Enterprise Institute's Thomas Donnelly is one of a group of military experts who single handedly convinced the White House to change its strategy on Iraq.
WASHINGTON (Map, News) - When it comes to the troop surge in Iraq, a bunch of arm chair generals in Washington are influencing the Bush Administration as much as the Joint Chiefs or theater commanders.

A group of military experts at the American Enterprise Institute, concerned that the U.S. was on the verge of a calamitous failure in Iraq, almost single handedly convinced the White House to change its strategy.

They banded together at AEI headquarters in downtown Washington early last December and hammered out the surge plan during a weekend session. It called for two major initiatives to defeat the insurgency: reinforcing the troops and restoring security to Iraqi neighborhoods. Then came trips to the White House by AEI military historian Frederick Kagan, retired Army Gen. John Keane and other surge proponents.

More and more officials began attending the sessions. Even Vice President Dick Cheney came. "We took the results of our planning session immediately to people in the administration," said AEI analyst Thomas Donnelly, a surge planner. "It became sort of a magnet for movers and shakers in the White House." Donnelly said the AEI approach won out over plans from the Pentagon and U.S. Central Command. The two Army generals then in charge of Iraq had opposed a troop increase.

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In January, President Bush announced the surge, which kicked off the next month. "I think without the AEI exercise, it would be highly unlikely we would have followed a completely different course over the last six months in Iraq," Donnelly said.

Keane already had done some ground work. He won a private meeting with then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in September. The retired four-star bluntly told him that he would lose the war unless he changed tactics.

The emergence of AEI as a power player on Iraq belies the notion that neo-conservatives are on the decline in Washington. AEI brags an impressive roster of neo-con thinkers. Former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, an Iraq war architect, arrived at AIE this summer, joining such prominent conservatives as John Bolton, David Frum and Michael Ledeen.

With its plan in place, the AEI Iraq team is not sitting still. Keane is an adviser to Army Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq. He has inspected war conditions on two visits. Kagan left for Iraq this week.

"It was kind of the 11th hour, 59th minute," Donnelly said of AEI's surge plan. "It's the function that think tanks are supposed to perform to provide independent advice and analysis."

rscarborough@dcexaminer.com

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Comments from Examiner Readers

8:55 AM MST on Thu., Nov. 27, 2008 re: "A bond that can’t be broken"

Portia said:
Good news! Thanks!,

1 agree | 1 disagree
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3:44 PM MST on Thu., Nov. 20, 2008 re: "Bush fights back against Quds Force doubters"

Sgt Rock said:
I was there, i saw these weapons in use, i know what they're capable of, and i know where they're coming from. This is a problem, but i do believe that with all of our resources, there are much better ways to put this little fire out other than open full out war. Didn't we do this agains the Soviets during the cold war? We won that war. I believe that good intelligence, and good Special Operations force is the key to stemming this insurgency.

2 agree | 1 disagree
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6:14 AM MST on Mon., Nov. 3, 2008 re: "Bush fights back against Quds Force doubters"

Alexander the great said:
Obama should definetley do something about the war and im pretty sure he is

5 agree | 4 disagree
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12:40 PM MST on Mon., Oct. 6, 2008 re: "Bush fights back against Quds Force doubters"

steven Mcqueen said:
i dont know wat i think about the war on one hand we should stop it because it is killing our troops and on the other hand we are helping people and if we leave more people will die.Talking about explosives i say we should leave.

8 agree | 8 disagree
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5:07 PM MST on Tue., Sep. 9, 2008 re: "Arm chair generals help shape surge in Iraq"

Examiner Reader said:
so thats where all those second lts in nam went. and here i thought they all became used car salesman or worse yet, cops and/or prison gaurds.

15 agree | 13 disagree
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12:44 PM MST on Sun., Sep. 7, 2008 re: "Iraqi FM: Iraq, US 'very close' on security deal"

Examiner Reader said:
the so called war in iraq is all about killing for JESUS and OIL.

14 agree | 12 disagree
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11:02 PM MST on Mon., Sep. 1, 2008 re: "Iraqis take control of once-bloody Anbar province"

johnn said:
if the surge is working why dont bush pull out all the troops ,all at once,and give complete control to maliki,i know why,because with out the us to baby sit them they cant protect there women and children

14 agree | 14 disagree
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8:22 PM MST on Sun., Aug. 24, 2008 re: "Bomb strikes Shiite pilgrims in Iraq"

Examiner Reader said:
I sure hope that moron was being cheeky who wants to convert everyone and everything. Does anyone else realize how ridiculous that whole paragragh was? I sure hope he was kidding. If not, CIA, FBI, DO YOUR STUFF!

13 agree | 14 disagree
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5:38 PM MST on Fri., Aug. 15, 2008 re: "Bomb strikes Shiite pilgrims in Iraq"

Examiner Reader said:
It is easy to stop all the wars in the middle east, including the war in Iraq. Just convert the United States to ISLAM !!!! Then we can bring our islamic armies home. Then we can bring our islamic airplanes home. Sharia Law will rule our land and we will be observant of the new rules. We will burn the Constitution and our koran will be the law. We will remove and destroy all monuments in the District of Columbia and in all parts of our land. We will yield all churches and synagogues to islam to convert to mosques. We will remove the President and an iman will take over rule. We will dissolve Congress and recognize new islamic councils. All holidays will be removed and a calender faithful to mohammed will be used. Our schools will be reorganized for boys and men only. Girls and women will remain at home until authorized otherwise. Infractions of the law of the koran will be dealt with by lashing or beheading.

17 agree | 21 disagree
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9:33 AM MST on Sun., Aug. 10, 2008 re: "Iraqi FM: Iraq, US 'very close' on security deal"

Examiner Reader said:
too bad we couldnt have installed a u s puppet in iraq as prime minister.look out shrub, these guys are growing larger balls.

17 agree | 16 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
10:04 AM MST on Sun., Jul. 20, 2008 re: "Work resumes at Iraq refinery in once-violent area"

Examiner Reader said:
212:58 pm. a confrontation with iran will give our military a chance to confront chinese military technology, and since china is a huge trading partner with iran the world as we know it will be quit different. better dig your basement a lot deeper.

20 agree | 19 disagree
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3:08 PM MST on Wed., Jun. 25, 2008 re: "3 American soldiers killed in northern Iraq"

nathaniel said:
at this rate there is going to be more deaths in iraq by the time i graduate from university. theres no chance of making iraq into a democracy or "americanising" iraq. in the end im still wondering "why are we involved with a conflict that dosent even involve us except when it comes to oil.

29 agree | 26 disagree
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12:58 PM MST on Fri., Jun. 13, 2008 re: "Iraqi PM says security talks with US deadlocked"

Examiner Reader said:
iraq can get used to the usa there for a long time to come we dident pour billions of dollars in that hole to give up and walk away the u.s.will keep a number of troops there for years to come,will use it as a base to strike from if it comes to a show down with iran which will come sooner or later no doubt iran has sponserd terrorist for years, years ago when jimmy carter was president they were doing it rember our plane with hostages they took ,iran is the biggest promoter of terrorists in the whole world and will eventully have to be confronted thats why the u.s. will keep a presence in iraq for years to come .

31 agree | 27 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
10:27 AM MST on Fri., Jun. 13, 2008 re: "Iraqi PM says security talks with US at impasse"

Examiner Reader said:
so much for democracy in iraq. maybe they have seen how it works here and it kinda sorta turns their stomachs.maybe the neocons can figure out a better way to steal the oil.i have faith in them, as they have proven capable of anything,even destroying this country,without firing a shot.

28 agree | 31 disagree
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9:24 AM MST on Fri., Jun. 13, 2008 re: "Iraqi PM says security talks with US at impasse"

Examiner Reader said:
to 2:01 pm,the same goes for wash dc ,which in reality is where the actual hub of the axis of evil resides.

44 agree | 33 disagree
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2:01 PM MST on Sat., May. 24, 2008 re: "Lawmakers loyal to al-Sadr denounce Iraqi gov't"

Examiner Reader said:
You all might not know this but we are here to atay in Iraq for many years down the road.This is going to be our base for combat operations for the coming future.I don't care if there is a republican or dumbocrate in the WhiteHouse as President.This base of operations will draw all the evil there to fight with us. And not in our country!

35 agree | 32 disagree
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5:59 PM MST on Sat., May. 3, 2008 re: "US strike takes out militant holdout in Baghdad"

Examiner Reader said:
Has anything good ever come from the middle east? I haven't seen anything yet.

39 agree | 36 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
7:52 AM MST on Tue., Apr. 29, 2008 re: "US military: 12 militants die as Baghdad violence increases"

Forza said:
to chuck in st.paul......it's not a "towel"they wear on their heads but a "sheet". therefore, please refer to them as a "sheet head". we must be politically correct.

44 agree | 39 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
11:35 AM MST on Sat., Apr. 26, 2008 re: "Britain: No troop withdrawals until Iraq security improves"

Examiner Reader said:
didn't we hear this about THREE YEARS AGO? also to Knot2brite, we are not only supervising the war(very poorly) but financing it with borrowed money. we as americans are to blame for allowing this imperialist govt to flourish thru our own greed. but now we are starting to have to pay the piper,big time!

43 agree | 40 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
4:22 PM MST on Wed., Apr. 23, 2008 re: "US deputy commander calls on al-Sadr to stop attacks in Iraq"

Knot2brite said:
Is the Examiner sure the guy didn't say something like: "Come on, dude, I mean radical Shiite cleric Al Sadr, sir, mind if I call you Al? Cut it out, I mean quit it, please just stop it." Does anybody in the US really have a clue as to what the hell is going on in Iraq? NO, NO they don't! Surge, drawdown, progress, etc., etc., isn't this basically Iraq's civil war that we're supervising over there, I mean can't they just get it over with, sooner or later somebody's gonna come out on top in Iraq, get on with it, it's worse than waiting for the outcome of the Democratic nomination for President.

39 agree | 42 disagree
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10:35 AM MST on Sun., Apr. 20, 2008 re: "Al-Sadr followers denounce wall Americans are building"

Examiner Reader said:
democracy and religion need satans and satanic pretend cults to keep its citizenry in check with fear. its the only way to control the ignorant masses.

41 agree | 47 disagree
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4:10 PM MST on Sat., Apr. 19, 2008 re: "Al-Sadr followers denounce wall Americans are building"

Examiner Reader said:
if al-sader is such a problem why dont we go in a kill him,or do we let him go like bin laden.seems like prolonging is the main goal of the administration for their corporate buddies. we should rename iraq to iranam. that would make the dems happy and and put this half assed war in perspective.

41 agree | 44 disagree
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4:34 PM MST on Fri., Apr. 11, 2008 re: "Top Aide to Al-Sadr Assassinated in Iraq"

chuck in st paul said:
I hope this is just a warm-up for al Sadsack himself to eat a bullet. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of cutthroats.

46 agree | 43 disagree
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6:59 PM MST on Mon., Apr. 7, 2008 re: "Returning soldiers receive hearty welcome in Towson"

Robyn said:
I am a proud Patriot Guard Rider who braved the cold to ride our scoot from Westminster, MD, to "House of the" Rising Sun, MD, to escort the THREE busloads of troops back to Towson, with a State police escort, where they were honorably DISMISSED! Lots of tears and joy and kidz and families and friends to greet our brave troops! Pizza, soft drinks, snacks & cookies were shared by ALL. You libs don't even have a CLUE of a clue, so go blog your garbage somewhere else. It's because of our troops that this war is, once again, NOT on our soil, like 9/11, which started it in the long run. It's being fought in the dirty cat box in the middle east, where it belongs. Don't you GET it yet? The fanatic Muslims HATE us and all westerners because we are INFIDELS to them! I've read the Koran; I believe in "know thy enemy and keep him close." Take your rose-colored glasses off, libs! Go lovey-dovey somewhere else.

52 agree | 50 disagree
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6:50 PM MST on Sun., Apr. 6, 2008 re: "3 US Troops Killed, 31 Wounded in Iraq"

Bring Troops Home said:
My family has supported the troops and the war and has a soldier and cousins there now, however, it is time to bring all of the troops home. Here are some reasons: 1. Want troops home to join and reacquaint themselves with their families. 2. Too much money is being wasted that should be spent for better security, housing, medical, schools, etc. in the United States. 3. Too many gang-bangers are taking advantage of our troops not being home and they are threatening, robbing, and killing innocent people in the United States. 4. Too many gang-bangers are turning into Al Qaeda within the United States.

51 agree | 47 disagree
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9:48 AM MST on Sat., Apr. 5, 2008 re: "Christian Priest Killed in Baghdad"

Examiner Reader said:
Ad hominum attacks on those we disagree with serve no purpose except to inflame emotions. Being conservative in one's thinking has no relationship to reading a map.

53 agree | 47 disagree
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9:24 AM MST on Sat., Apr. 5, 2008 re: "Christian Priest Killed in Baghdad"

Examiner Reader said:
The Conservatives only know about Islam from what they hear on "Faux News" or from Rush Limpball. Most of the conservatives I run into couldn't find Iraq on a map.

50 agree | 53 disagree
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8:48 AM MST on Sat., Apr. 5, 2008 re: "Iraq Green Zone Comes Under Fresh Attack"

Examiner Reader said:
It amazes me that liberals in America don't seem to get it about radical Islam. Polls show that Muslims in general are backing this insanity! Christians, Jews, Hindu's Buddists are being murdered by radicals. Christians, Jews, Hindus & Buddists do not strap on bombs and blow-up civilians! Christians, Jews, Hindu's & Buddists do not sieze passenger planes and fly them into buildings nor do they capture cruise boats and throw elderly American-Jewish passengers in wheelchairs into the ocean. Where is the outrage in the muslim world over this horrific carnage? If we don't start to recognize the danger of this enemy, Islam... our kids are going to suffer as never before in Western thinking countries.

51 agree | 58 disagree
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7:38 AM MST on Sat., Apr. 5, 2008 re: "Christian Priest Killed in Baghdad"

Muslims are COWARDS said:
They are so insecure in their beliefs that they have to kill the competitions.

47 agree | 44 disagree
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6:54 AM MST on Mon., Mar. 31, 2008 re: "Iraq Green Zone Comes Under Fresh Attack"

Examiner Reader said:
The terrorists are emboldened by the prospect of a President Obama.

48 agree | 49 disagree
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10:12 AM MST on Sat., Mar. 29, 2008 re: "US Warplanes Widen Airstrikes in Iraq"

speedstan said:
If 1 soldier dies its too many and just not worth it. i see and hear people everyday trying to justify war for any reason and it's sad. - Do your whining and protesting in front of those perpetuating the killing - the Islamofascist terrorists. Do you honestly think that there will be instant peace and love if the US just pulls out of Iraq? Sometimes the road to "peace" requires a bit of butt-kicking along the way. Get a clue how the real world works...

58 agree | 52 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
11:27 AM MST on Fri., Mar. 28, 2008 re: "US Airstrike Kills at Least 4 in Baghdad"

Examiner Reader said:
I suspect the war in Iraq will end much like in Viet Nam, disastrously. However, much like Viet Nam, after the country endures the predictable mayhem, I'm guessing it will eventually find its feet and become an enterprising nation. What confuses me is why does a fiercely "individualistic" nation like the U.S. continue to invade countries with "clan/tribal" cultures and believe an overlay of Western "democracy" will suddenly flourish. As far as I can tell, these cultures and concepts are at odds from their inception.

55 agree | 54 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
12:41 PM MST on Tue., Mar. 25, 2008 re: "Iraqi Troops, Militias Clash in Basra"

chuck in st paul said:
The Iranians finally make their move. Things have been way too quiet with an American general election coming up so the Towel-heads In Teheran are putting Muqi up to stirring the pot. If certain candidates become President the Iranians hope a "quagmire" will give the new President cover to bail out of Iraq, leaving it wide open for an Iranian political takeover. If President al-Maliki doesn't step down hard on this it could get out of hand quickly - just what the Iranians want.

50 agree | 47 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
11:40 AM MST on Tue., Mar. 25, 2008 re: "Attacks Kill 57 in Iraq; Green Zone Hit"

Examiner Reader said:
appears to me the surge is working.it gave the enemy a reason to back off for a while,a little r and r never hurt anyone.

51 agree | 47 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
10:33 AM MST on Mon., Mar. 17, 2008 re: "McCain, Cheney: US in Iraq Long-Term"

Examiner Reader said:
im just wondering what stations the left wing media are on.maybe you mccainites in wyo. can help me out so i can program them off my clacker.i certainly dont want their lies polluting my feeble mind.id rather stick with one side,so i can keep up with my executive job at mickey d's. jobs like mine are hard to find.

57 agree | 50 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
3:36 PM MST on Fri., Feb. 15, 2008 re: "Iraqi PM: al-Qaida Chased From Baghdad"

Examiner Reader said:
12:34pm shows what it's like to live in the land of lollipops, rainbows and my little pony. Please tell us, how are Al-Qaida, Hezbollah and terrorists worldwide going to "abolish all wars"? Take your juvenile message to Osama Bin Laden and stop blaming the U.S. for what these terrorists do. And grow up!

128 agree | 146 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
12:34 PM MST on Sun., Feb. 10, 2008 re: "Iraq Murder Trial Opens for Army Sniper"

Examiner Reader said:
If 1 soldier dies its too many and just not worth it. i see and hear people everyday trying to justify war for any reason and it's sad. All of our troops should come home now. We as a country should lead by example and stop fighting unjust wars all over the world....just stop and it will show others that war is simply not the answer. BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!! ABOLISH ALL WARS!!!

181 agree | 178 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
11:06 AM MST on Sat., Feb. 9, 2008 re: "Iraq Murder Trial Opens for Army Sniper"

Examiner Reader said:
9:45 Vietnam a smart war because we are close to 4000 dead. There were about 57,000 dead in your smart war. You just prove how you lefties don't know what you are talking about and how you say anything, most of the time flat out lies.

156 agree | 196 disagree
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9:56 AM MST on Fri., Feb. 1, 2008 re: "Female Bombers Strike Markets in Baghdad"

Examiner Reader said:
It's a good thing some of these Bush hating boobs were around during Hitler & Tojos' days. We'd be living in a far worse world now. "Princess", "Mr.Mirth..." and others of the same blind USA hating rage, have been fooled by the equally daffy freedom hating left wing news media. Quitting and giving up reveals much about such peoples character. (Or the lack of it). Do a little research on what Radical Islamic terrorists want to achieve, and the results will show how ignorant and ill-informed these foolish posters are.

186 agree | 213 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
8:25 AM MST on Fri., Feb. 1, 2008 re: "At Least 68 Dead in Baghdad Market Bombs"

Mr. Mirth Alert said:
I've always been puzzled about why these suicide bombers would be sacrifice themselves to kill off others for what seems to me a vague, fuzzy idea: I mean, female suicide bombers will not meet the 40+ virgins, will they? Could it be they have nothing to live for? Despite complaints here about the press, the press has in fact been very loyal the Bush Admin.: it limits coverage to the war: for, against, or indifferent, but it limits coverage. Nothing about the 70% unemployed, before March 2003 & after; nothing about the massive welfare state that was Iraq, before March 2003 & after. Nothing about U.S. forces breaking up strikes & demonstrations. & Who's now subsidizing this welfare state & 70% unemployed? That house o'cards al-Maliki govt.? No: that dedicated corporate socialist, Geo. W. Bush. Fortunately, he has the MSM press to preclude our exposure to that unpleasantness.

204 agree | 199 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
9:45 AM MST on Mon., Jan. 28, 2008 re: "5 US Soldiers Killed in Northern Iraq"

Examiner Reader said:
just chipping away on to 4000 dead. this war makes vietnam look like a smart war.but i guess we had to loose to china then , so they would stock our shelves now.

208 agree | 208 disagree
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7:58 AM MST on Sat., Jan. 19, 2008 re: "Shiite Holiday Marred by Violence"

Johnny Utah said:
No surprise here folks! 7th century mindset still the norm. Is it a wonder that they are killing one another? Maybe in our lifetime we will see them carrying wreaths rather than swords. Islam is a long way from being called the religion of peace...

163 agree | 185 disagree
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12:19 PM MST on Fri., Jan. 18, 2008 re: "Iraqi Troops Clash With Shiite Cult"

[X] Princess [X] said:
See. And This wouldn't be a problem. If We would just leave them alone. And Bring Our People Back Home. They don't want us there. So why are we there? Because Bush is a Puppet, and wants to make his daddy proud? Because He Wants to Kill as many people as he can before his term is up? Who knows. Why the hell did we ENTER their country ANYWAYS? ...Why can't we just let them live as they want to, kill as many of THEIR people as they want to, and not give a damn. We have enough problems in America, to be worrying about another country and deploying and Killing our men and women. For What? What Purpose does it serve? I think unfourtunatly, Our President has made awful choices. And WE THE PEOPLE, are left to suffer and deal with the reactions and consequences those choices bring.

203 agree | 185 disagree
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12:53 PM MST on Tue., Jan. 8, 2008 re: "Major Joint US-Iraqi Operation Begins"

chuck in st paul said:
We are still in Germany 50+ years after we declared victory. I guess we lost WW II, eh? As a matter of fact GI's still get killed in Germany. It's time to cut and run from Europe folks. Will there never be an end? /sarc off

240 agree | 229 disagree
Vote on this comment: I agree or I disagree
10:37 AM MST on Tue., Jan. 8, 2008 re: "Major Joint US-Iraqi Operation Begins"

Examiner Reader said:
I agree with "War Time Vet" who posted at 6:24 AM, but I go one step further. We would have lost World War II had we had the news coverage of today. Unfortunately, we will never win another war since the Fourth Estate now demands that the public has a right to know whatever is being planned and, for the ignorant people, that means the enemy in advance knows what is going to occur. For the educated patriotic Americans who lived before and during those World War II years this current open policy of the 4th Estate liberals is an insult to our intelligence and is a danger to my country. Frankly, the Fourth Estate in its stupidity is working for the enemy. In other words, people, you don't let the enemy know what you are planning. It is as simple as that.

254 agree | 227 disagree
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6:24 AM MST on Tue., Jan. 8, 2008 re: "Major Joint US-Iraqi Operation Begins"

War Time Vet said:
It always amazes me how we always warn the enemy before we strike . It's like the police who are in rout to a criminal act in progress making as much noise with sirens and horns and flashing lights as to warn them to take cover from those who are persuing them . Kind of like my little dog . When she hears a noise she barks and has a fit trying to scare off the threat , because in all actuallity she is only barking in FEAR. The US needs to stop fearing what the public will say and keep quiet and put an end to ALL the terrorist , including those who support the terrorist either phisically or verbally . No pain No gain , I suffered war time losses , and suffering will always continue as long we allow it .

230 agree | 233 disagree
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10:38 AM MST on Mon., Dec. 24, 2007 re: "US: Iraq Successes Mean New Challenges"

Louielamson2000 said:
War torn in Irag Succsses for how long? who will challenges who? Nha Trang Vietnam December 25, 2007

238 agree | 228 disagree
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4:17 PM MST on Sun., Dec. 23, 2007 re: "US: Iraq Successes Mean New Challenges"

Examiner Reader said:
the only challenge should be how to get the troops out of Iraq immediately in an unjust war!

237 agree | 245 disagree
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8:15 PM MST on Tue., Dec. 18, 2007 re: "Turkish Army Sends Soldiers Into Iraq"

Louielamson2000 said:
Trouble! trouble for whom? what happens next?...

254 agree | 250 disagree
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2:37 PM MST on Sun., Dec. 16, 2007 re: "General: Iraq at Its Quietest Since '04"

Potomac Pete said:
I am not a Republican, have never voted for Bush, and oppose many of his misguided policies. Having said that, I no NOT want to see us lose the initiative and squander the hard-won gains made this summer by letting the doom-and-gloomers talk us into cutting and running. The Islamic militants are looking hard at Iraq and praying for another Vietnam scenario where we lose confidence and bail out. Stick with the fight and get it over with. As far as the Iraqi government goes, if they can't grow up, who needs them? Restructure the country along tribal confederations, and build a fence between those groups that can't get along...

244 agree | 255 disagree
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