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SAN FRANCISCO (Map, News) - A little more than half a season in the Giants’ 2008 bank and I think it is worth posing this question: Are we watching the leftover year from the Barry Bonds era or the inaugural year of next era of Giants baseball?
The Giants deserve plenty of kudos for the way they’ve developed into a scrappy ballclub. After falling to 17-29 on May 29, they’ve basically played .500, which exceeds expectations by a huge margin.
The good news? If before the season you told me Barry Zito and Matt Cain would combine to go 8-18 and Noah Lowry would be a non-entity to this point, I would have guessed the Giants weren’t going to win 50 games.
While Cain’s ERA and walk total are concerns, the fact that Tim Lincecum (10-1) and Jonathan Sanchez (8-4) have blossomed into bona fide talent puts the Giants even further over the top in the pitching department. And there’s no such thing as too much there.
The bad news? While a nucleus of solid pros that include Aaron Rowand, Bengie Molina, Rich Aurilia and Randy Winn has been key, only Fred Lewis and John Bowker rank among the top eight Giants in terms of plate appearances. This really has been a veteran-laden lineup Bruce Bochy has been throwing out there and there doesn’t appear to be much potential for growth.
Look, everybody knew this year would be painful, but if 2008 doesn’t serve the Giants as the step toward becoming a contender again, then it’s a waste.
The key statistic for me regarding the Giants so far says they are 26-10 in games pitched by Lincecum and Sanchez, 12-38 in all other games.
Second-half formula? More Emmanuel Burriss. More Travis Denker. More John Bowker. Get them as much playing time as possible.
Random thoughts:
» The Baron Davis opt-out may be the best move Chris Mullin ever made. Yes, Davis ranks near the top of the NBA in talent, but he was showing some wear and tear down the stretch last season. And don’t forget the number of key games which he was unable to turn the Warriors’ way. Better for the Warriors his exit come one year early rather than one year late.
» Boy, it can’t be fun being ex-Cal star Aaron Rodgers. He can’t win. The ghost of Brett Favre simply won’t leave Green Bay.
» The next look of Major League Baseball? Josh Hamilton, Evan Longoria, Jay Bruce. Between them, less than 300 games of big-league experience and they already look like stars. Why can’t the Giants draft guys who turn out like this?
» The Giants and Dodgers over the Fourth of July weekend. Does it get any better? No matter what year it is — 1958 or 2008 — this series deserves a circle on any calendar.
Tim Liotta is a freelance journalist and regular contributor to The Examiner.
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Examiner Reader said:
THe giants are an awful organization, poorly run with really poor players!!!
5 agree | 2 disagree
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noah said:
I see no problem in replacing Wynn with Horwitz or Nate S. but let's be realistic, neither of those guys is the answer. Even if Horwitz is a future batting champ, that's not what the giants need. In terms of batting average, the team is already solid. The problem is the utter lack of power, and Horwitz and Nate don't provide that.
5 agree | 4 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
Hopefully the new managing partner will fire Sabean and Bochy. The new GM will have to successfully revamp the minor league system and start producing young players who can succeed in the majors.The next manager will have to teach and develop these players. Currently the rookies play once a week and we are stuck watching has beens like Aurilia and Durham. Thank God Roberts is on IR or we would never see Lewis play.
10 agree | 7 disagree
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Tom in SF said:
Hi Glenn, Nice article. However, I think the only reason they went young is because of injuries(Roberts, Vizquel), or incredibly bad play (Aurilia, Durham). Otherwise, it would be the same old story. If they have a chance to trade any of those guys (and Winn) at the trading deadline to a contender for any type of prospect, I hope they do it. Regards, T
8 agree | 8 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
Of all the stupid moves Sabean made the third base situation puzzles me the most. He drops Feliz who signs as a backup in Philadelphia. Then he signs Castillo who was cut by two other teams? Castillo is a bench player at best with no upside. Feliz was a better option.
9 agree | 10 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
As a life long fan of the Giants I would be happy to give them a break if they would just play the younger players. No one wants to watch mediocre older players like Aurilia,Durham and Roberts. They are getting in the way of the younger players, and they are not any better. I think they will have to get rid of them so Bochy will not be tempted to play them. If they can get a decent first baseman for Randy Winn I would trade him since they need infielders and have a surplus of outfielders.
10 agree | 8 disagree
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arnie said:
Hi Ric (Walcoff), Enjoyed the article. Agree with you on Nelson's reluctance to play younger players. Especially when some of his starters are off on their shots. If they are hot, leave them in; if not, give the rookies like Bellinelli, Wright, and anyone else a shot. Also he plays them too long when the starters are hot and doing well. A good coach, but never has been or will be a great one. Looking forward to your next essay. Arnie
8 agree | 7 disagree
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examiner reader said:
remember hank sauer? played left field in 1958 with the giants. he was at the end of his career having spent almost all of it with the cubs. well considering the mutts that the giants are trying to pass off as major leaguers; hank would be batting clean up and making millions. glenn thanks for the memories, for that's all we have now!
9 agree | 9 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
Great memories Glenn, but they really show how this franchise has declined over the years. I doubt we will be remembering any of the current players years from now except for Lincecom and Cain who were amoung the league leaders in ERA while both losing twenty games each.!
9 agree | 9 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Fred Lewis will save the Giants.
9 agree | 9 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
I wonder when Matt Cain will finally lose his cool and demand to be traded to a team that will support him with some runs?
13 agree | 9 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Lincecum and Cain, and then the PAIN! Lewis and Ortmeier are the only other two I have high hopes for. Especially Lewis.
11 agree | 9 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Are they really trying? Why wait two months. It was just sad to see Aurilla, Durham, and Roberts in the opening day starting line-up. The young guys need to play and it's not like the veterans are going to take the team anywhere. Can you say five singles and no runs? No matter how good the pitching is (and Zito wasn't particularly), it can't win games without run support. This team could be a candidate to break Detroit's loss record. It would be a lock without the pitching strength.
9 agree | 9 disagree
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examiner reader said:
i thought that this team had a legitimate chance to lose one hundred games this year. frankly i was wrong.. this team will rock the record books with a minimum of one hundred and ten loss's and they "might" hit one hundred and twenty, can you imagine a season with forty two wins? do you believe in miracles? mcgowan might get close to 3 million paid this year, but wait till next.. walk up's welcomed!
9 agree | 8 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
The Giants have a hard time with decisions on veteran players. They finally cut the ribbon with Bonds, perhaps that was too much for them. The starting line up had Castillo at third (cut by the Pirates and Marlins) Aurillia (cut by the Reds)and Durham who had the worst year of any starting player last year. What are they waiting for? They are going to lose. Why not lose with younger players? After they open the season with a six game losing streak perhaps the management will finally give up an make the needed cuts.The only way Lincecom and Cain are going to win is by throwing shut outs and hitting home runs. Don't think for a minute that Roberts,Durham,Aurilia and Castillo are going to get runs across.
10 agree | 9 disagree
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Phil in Lafayette said:
The Giants opener told the whole sad story. The offense cannot score, Zito's 'fastball' is slower than last year, the defense is atrocious (Durham still cannot catch popups), and there is NO committment to youth. Where was Lewis? Where was Davis? Where was Velez? Where was Ortmeyer? Where was Schierholz? With their current lineup and philosophy, I expect this to be the worst Giants' team since before their move west and probably the least exciting/watchable team in the majors. How Sabean kept his job is a total mystery to me!
12 agree | 10 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
zito the biggest blunder? how about the liriano/bonser/nathan trade or accardo for hillenbrand? every time the giants bullpen blows a save the memory of those trades haunts us...
10 agree | 8 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
no bonds, no baseball for me,he is the best
8 agree | 9 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Home against Pittsburgh with Lincecum on the mound. I think they'll be favored that night.
8 agree | 8 disagree
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Joey in chester said:
The Giant Org. has erased Bonds name from the park and i'm erasing the Giants memory from my mind. It's tough after being a hardcore fan for over 40 years but enough is enough, the Giants cast away players like we take out the garbage. Barry Bonds held my interest. Instead of investing in quality players, they chose to bank money and draw every dime they could from Bonds...and us fans. Now they don't want anything to do with him? Shame on the Giants. I'm Gone!
10 agree | 8 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
It is time that the fans turned up the heat on McGowan and Sabean. If we are going to lose 100 games why not do it with younger players who have an upside. Giving playing time to Roberts,Aurilia and Durham is just plain stupid. They should be starting Davis in right field, he has the speed and the arm required to play the position. Rowland is fine in center and move Winn to left field. Instead of rotating Frandsen to every position let him play second and see if he is capable. Durham,Roberts and Aurilia are bench players at best. Durham is an expensive pinch hitter and Roberts an expensive pinch runner. It would be nice if Sabean figured out a third base alternative since he decided not to re-sign Feliz.It is interesting that Feliz signed a two year deal in Philadelphia to be backup rather than resign as a starter with the Giants.
11 agree | 7 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
I agree with Dickey except that I think Rowand is a good pickup. He's not real old, a great guy in the cluhouse and covers a lot of territory. He may not hit as well as he did in Philly, but he'll hit better than either Davis or Lewis would. Plus, he's not about to become a free agent soon...he's not just a rent-a-player.
8 agree | 11 disagree
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hisimon said:
The Giants have NOT had a decent GM since Al Rosen. Quinn and Sabean have done very little with all of the drafts they've had and it's painfully obvious we (the fans) will endure yet another sub .500 season. By now Sabean has to be (fired) so embarrassed by such an under talented team and such a BANKRUPT farm system. Each year it only gets mention in baseball America as one of the least talented and least productive systems and not mentioned for any other reasons. The Giants can't begin to make a new idenity and change directions until they get a new GM with new ideas and new energy and some ability to recognize talent. Big name FA's have refused to sign here the last 2 years no matter how much money the Giants have offered and the reason is obvious, NO DIRECTION/NO TALENT = No Ring. Sabean couldn't get it done when he had the best hitter in the game in his prime years and now he will get it done with what he's got in the system?
39 agree | 19 disagree
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hisimon said:
Glenn, I believe Torialba and Feliz were the last everyday players to come out of the Giant's system not Mueller. You are right about the Giant's not committed to a youth movement. Sabean, like Don nelson has little or no confidence in youngsters and has always (overpayed) for players on the down side. You didn't even mention Kline and Chaulk and now the Giant's have Threets and a rule 5 guy that likely will be castoff like Linebrink was way before Sabean new what he had. Same old Giants, it's always about the circus. Now that it's obvious to everyone that they were ill prepared for life after Bonds, they're worried about becoming Cleveland? The Giants deserve a red ink ass whooping for the way they run this Franchise, the stadium experience is old hat and they have little to show for a new direction and nothing to show for 50 years..
36 agree | 19 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
Joe Crede will be a free agent next year. With Scott Boras as his agent they will want a long term contract to play beyond this season. An average third baseman coming off major surgery and coming to a pitchers park does not make sense to me. If Sabean trades for Crede this will be one more horrible error in judgement. The Giant management will never learn.
44 agree | 22 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Nailed it. The Giants are not truly committed to rebuilding. We'll see if more losing changes that. Last year was the time to start the transition: instead, Roberts, Aurilia, Durham and Molina were brought in to extend the mediocrity a few more years. Fans could have had the home run chase, the All Star Game, and a younger, more promising team for '08. It should also be noted that Sabean's reluctance to trade for/sign any "unproven commodities" or blocked prospects from other systems borders on moronic. He's tied his own hands, and now is considering an average third baseman from a hitters park (coming off major back surgery) as a long-term replacement at third. Four Joe Crede's would not be the answer. The Giants will be 150 runs of offense away from an AVERAGE offense in '08, and will depend on Winn and Molina to be two of their better hitters again in '09, when they are 35 and 34 years old.
42 agree | 25 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Glen is correct. The Giants will start the veterans which is a major mistake. The Giants really need to see if Ortmeirer can play first, Schierholtz in right, Velez at second and Frandsen at third. The Giants had a great draft and either Burriss or their 07 draft choice, Noonan, will be their shortstop of the future. I really believe that the fans will not be happy with Roberts or Aurilla starting since this will only hamper the playing time for the young players. In regard to the possibility of obtaining Joe Crede from the White Sox I would be very careful with him and not about his health. Rather I would want to find out why the White Sox want to get rid of him and Scott Boras is his agent. I still remember the A. J. Pierzynski and Shea Hillenbrand trades and the attitudes they brought with them not to mention the closers we lost in the deal. Both of these deals were disasters and we don't need more of these type of deals. I think the Giants need to bite the bullet now.
43 agree | 23 disagree
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Examiner Reader said:
Article points out exactly why, from a business perspective, the Giants should have started the rebuild last year. The fans would have come out with the ASG and the Bonds home run derby, so it was the perfect time to start the rebuild. Instead Sabean showed that he lost his mojo by signing Durham (re-sign), Aurilia, Roberts, and the horrible Zito contract. This season is all about Sabean's mistakes. If he had planned better for last year, he could have traded Durham and Schmidt for prospects to aid the rebuild. How Sabean could put the Giants in this situation and still get a new contract is a total mystery. Bring in DePodesta. AND PLAY THE KIDS
40 agree | 23 disagree
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Lars said:
Sam, that website is not updated by Sabean or Bochy. It is a best guess by Chris Haft. There has been no statement from the decision makers regarding a leader in the 3B competition.
26 agree | 23 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
Lars, you might check the Giant WEB site and click on "DEPTH CHART". #B Rich Aurillia!!!
39 agree | 25 disagree
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Lars said:
Are you really pining for Todd Linden? LOL Also: " Rich Aurilia, 36, is currently the leading candidate at third." That statement has no basis in fact. You have no quotes from any Giants official that lays out a standing depth chart for any position player much less 3rd base.
43 agree | 27 disagree
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Sam in Reno said:
I agree, Durham and Roberts will be starters. They make too much money. Both are defensive liabilities. Both should be coming off the bench. We have to hope that since this is Durhams final contract year he may produce good numbers. If they have to play him put him on first.This is going to0 be a really ugly season. The management will start bringing in over the hill "vets" once the losing streak starts. If they committed to a true youth movement the fans would put up with a lousy season. Instead they try and straddle the gap between youth and attendance.
33 agree | 25 disagree
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